Differences between revisions 42 and 43
Revision 42 as of 2019-09-08 00:18:15
Size: 7138
Editor: nodiscc
Comment:
Revision 43 as of 2019-09-08 01:17:16
Size: 7579
Editor: PaulWise
Comment: suggest joining the debian-www channel/list
Deletions are marked like this. Additions are marked like this.
Line 129: Line 129:
{{{#!wiki pink/solid
 . I left a message on #debian-www IRC about this, and no one seems to disagree (got no answer at all :)

You didn't stick around long enough for anyone to comment. Please keep your IRC client in the #debian-www channel and join the debian-www mailing list, there has been at least one discussion about you there:

https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/06092019183508.5a8f735e9444@desktop.copernicus.org.uk
}}}


Wiki consolidation/cleanup/maintenance

External sources

Work in progress

Obsolete pages:

Redundant pages:

  1. AlsaMidi
  2. BTS/BugTag
  3. BTS/HowTo
  4. BTS/HowToUse
  5. Backup
  6. BackupAndRecoveryWork
  7. Bash
  8. BourneShell
  9. BrowserApps
  10. BugReport
  11. BugReport/WorkingOn
  12. BugTriage
  13. CategoryObsolete
  14. CategoryProposedDeletion/Discussion
  15. CategoryRedundant
  16. CommandLine
  17. CommandsCLI
  18. DebianFirewall
  19. DebianInstaller/SataRaid
  20. DebianInstaller/SoftwareRaidRoot
  21. DebianSoftware
  22. DebianWiki/Administration
  23. DefaultWebBrowser
  24. EduCheesetracker
  25. EduSoundtracker
  26. Firewalls
  27. HowToPackageForDebian
  28. Icedove
  29. JabberClients
  30. LCD
  31. Linux volume management
  32. LinuxRaidForAdmins
  33. Manual-Howto
  34. MidiHardware
  35. MultimediaCodecs
  36. NetworkApplication
  37. NetworkFAQ
  38. Part-UUID
  39. Peer2Peer
  40. QuickInstall
  41. RemoteFiles
  42. ShellCommands
  43. ShellConfiguration
  44. ShellTricks
  45. SoftwareRAID
  46. SystemBootProcess
  47. Tar
  48. TheUnixWay
  49. UserInterface
  50. WHEEL/PAM
  51. WindowsEquivalent
  52. XCP
  53. Zg2ShellStartup
  54. ar/CommandLineInterface
  55. bn/CommandLineInterface
  56. ccts
  57. coreutils
  58. de/Manual-Howto
  59. de/NetworkApplication
  60. deb
  61. es/CommandLineInterface
  62. es/QuickPackageManagement
  63. es/TheUnixWay
  64. fr/Bash
  65. fr/HowtoUseBTS
  66. fr/Karaoke
  67. fr/SecurityChecklist
  68. fr/ShellIntroduction
  69. fr/ShellTricks
  70. fr/Subversoin
  71. fr/TheUnixWay
  72. fr/WhatIsSecurity
  73. ftp.debian.org
  74. id/CommandLineInterface
  75. it/BTS/HowTo
  76. it/Bash
  77. it/CommandLine
  78. it/CommandsCLI
  79. it/DebianSoftware
  80. it/Firewalls
  81. it/HowToPackageForDebian
  82. it/JabberClients
  83. it/Manual-Howto
  84. it/MultimediaCodecs
  85. it/NetworkApplication
  86. it/Part-UUID
  87. it/Peer2Peer
  88. it/QuickInstall
  89. it/RemoteFiles
  90. it/ShellCommands
  91. it/ShellConfiguration
  92. it/ShellTricks
  93. it/TheUnixWay
  94. it/UserInterface
  95. it/WindowsEquivalent
  96. it/coreutils
  97. it/deb
  98. it/rootfs
  99. ko/CommandLineInterface
  100. ms/CommandLineInterface
  101. partclone
  102. pl/Wiadomości
  103. pt_BR/BTS/BugTag
  104. pt_BR/BTS/HowTo
  105. pt_BR/Bash
  106. pt_BR/BugReport
  107. pt_BR/DebianInstaller/SataRaid
  108. pt_BR/DebianNetworkInstall
  109. pt_BR/DefaultWebBrowser
  110. pt_BR/HowToPackageForDebian
  111. pt_BR/Part-UUID
  112. pt_BR/QuickInstall
  113. pt_BR/ShellCommands
  114. pt_BR/ShellConfiguration
  115. pt_BR/TheUnixWay
  116. pt_BR/deb
  117. rootfs
  118. ru/CommandLineInterface
  119. ru/Part-UUID
  120. ru/QuickPackageManagement
  121. sv/CommandLineInterface
  122. uk/RemoteFiles
  123. uk/WikiTag
  124. vi/CommandLineInterface
  125. zh_CN/CommandLineInterface
  126. zh_CN/HowToPackageForDebian
  127. zh_CN/Manual-Howto
  128. zh_CN/QuickPackageManagement
  129. zh_CN/ShellIntroduction

Command line interface:

  1. Bash
  2. BashColors
  3. BourneShell
  4. BurnCd
  5. CategoryCommandLineInterface
  6. CommandLine
  7. CommandLineInterface
  8. CommandsCLI
  9. Compression
  10. Console
  11. DvdRwTools
  12. EricVeirasGalisson/ChangeLog
  13. Fish
  14. Lynx
  15. ManualPage
  16. Ncurses
  17. Permissions
  18. ReleaseGoals/64bit-time (nolibs.txt)
  19. Shell
  20. ShellCommands
  21. ShellConfiguration
  22. ShellScript
  23. ShellToolTricks
  24. ShellTricks
  25. TerminalEmulator
  26. TheUnixWay
  27. UserInterface
  28. WhereIsIt
  29. Zg2ShellStartup
  30. ar/CommandLineInterface
  31. bn/CommandLineInterface
  32. chgrp
  33. coreutils
  34. cs/CommandLineInterface
  35. eo/UDF
  36. es/CommandLineInterface
  37. es/Shell
  38. es/TerminalEmulator
  39. es/TheUnixWay
  40. es/w3m
  41. fr/Bash
  42. fr/BurnCd
  43. fr/CommandLineInterface
  44. fr/Compression
  45. fr/Console
  46. fr/DashAsBinSh
  47. fr/Lynx
  48. fr/ManualPage
  49. fr/Ncurses
  50. fr/Shell
  51. fr/ShellTricks
  52. fr/TerminalEmulator
  53. fr/TheUnixWay
  54. fr/motd
  55. fr/w3m
  56. git
  57. id/CommandLineInterface
  58. it/Bash
  59. it/BurnCd
  60. it/CommandLine
  61. it/CommandLineInterface
  62. it/CommandsCLI
  63. it/Compression
  64. it/Console
  65. it/DvdRwTools
  66. it/Lynx
  67. it/Ncurses
  68. it/Permissions
  69. it/Shell
  70. it/ShellCommands
  71. it/ShellConfiguration
  72. it/ShellScript
  73. it/ShellToolTricks
  74. it/ShellTricks
  75. it/TheUnixWay
  76. it/UserInterface
  77. it/WhereIsIt
  78. it/coreutils
  79. it/git
  80. it/motd
  81. it/w3m
  82. ja/CommandLineInterface
  83. ko/CommandLineInterface
  84. motd
  85. ms/CommandLineInterface
  86. pt_BR/Bash
  87. pt_BR/CommandLineInterface
  88. pt_BR/Console
  89. pt_BR/Lynx
  90. pt_BR/Ncurses
  91. pt_BR/Shell
  92. pt_BR/ShellCommands
  93. pt_BR/ShellConfiguration
  94. pt_BR/ShellScript
  95. pt_BR/TerminalEmulator
  96. pt_BR/TheUnixWay
  97. pt_BR/w3m
  98. ro/ShellCommands
  99. ru/Bash
  100. ru/BashColors
  101. ru/CommandLineInterface
  102. ru/ShellCommands
  103. ru/terminal
  104. sv/CommandLineInterface
  105. uk/CommandLineInterface
  106. uk/Lynx
  107. uk/TerminalEmulator
  108. uk/w3m
  109. vi/CommandLineInterface
  110. w3m
  111. zh_CN/Bash
  112. zh_CN/CommandLineInterface

Talks

Hi nodiscc,

It looks like you have some good plans against the wiki mess, I haven't followed the details but I can only agree with the cleaning work, orphaned pages, not categorized ones, duplicate ones and what else. If you want we can discuss this somewhere, it might help if we're several agreeing on what needs to be done.

See you!

ccts

Hi ccts, for many years I found it was hard to search for information on the debian wiki, pages are not discoverable, many pages were drafts, there was duplicate/contradictory information... so recently I started following some broad guidelines:

  • Make the wiki more readable, navigable, accessible, refresh some older content
  • Deduplicate/merge content across pages on topics I understand, or use links.
  • Merge pages that have almost no content with their "parent" page, in general avoid creating extra pages when the content could fit in an existing page. No one will maintain them.
  • Standardize portals, use them as landing pages that any user from any knowledge level can understand and find information from.
  • Add categories to all pages, Redirect CategoryCategory pages to their respective portal, add fullsearch macros for the Category on the portal page

  • Standardize page names/formatting, spacing, link syntax, link cleanup... (?EditorGuide)

  • I have amassed a good amount of Debian docs on a personal wiki, wanted to merge some of it here, but couldn't cleanly do it without some refactoring (still ongoing)
  • Everything linked from FrontPage should be high quality content

  • There is some good general advice at https://wiki.c2.com/?GoodStyle https://wiki.c2.com/?RefactoringWikiPages

  • Delegate explanation/description of general concepts to Wikipedia (copy intro, link to WP page)

:) I gave fullsearch a try to (see Game page for an illustration), so we're on the same line.

  • You may use the Cached version when you think you're done with the category. I admit I don't remember when the cache gets regenerated unless you explicitly click to do it.
  • You may add the lang:en search parameter, which means translators also have to replace it with the right one. That also means categories which are named after a language shouldn't exist (only some french ones existing IIRC).

Using fullsearch has a few drawbacks, some Debian wiki pages mostly contain list of software, with comments... (lists with DebPkg shortcut) so if you switch to a FullSearch list, you won't be able to put comments on each line. Some people used them to "recommend" some packages over others but I don't think this should be the main purpose of a wiki. Also, making lists is the purpose of categories, so logically, pages shouldn't need the fullsearch macro to do that, and people would navigate using the categories. Right now there are a few redirections (url rewrite in wiki admin?), I believe they could be removed if we want to give back their purpose to categories.

Right now I have no big idea, maybe I'll do nothing but if I attempt to join your efforts :) I may have an eye on the orphaned pages, as there should be none IMO. I also feel some pages content turned quite old or irelevant so we don't have to hesitate too much to delete their content. That's what I think you have been doing so it's probably no big news.

I'm unsure these wiki issues have been discussed within Debian lately, I'm not part of any team, this should also clarify my words are in no way something official :)

See you!

  • You may use the Cached version when you think you're done with the category
  • add the lang:en search parameter

Good, I will do that.

  • some Debian wiki pages mostly contain list of software, with comments... (lists with DebPkg shortcut) so if you switch to a FullSearch list, you won't be able to put comments on each line.

I will probably not switch those pages, I mainly user FullSearch on portals:

  • Each page is attached to one or more categories
  • Each Category page redirects to the corresponding portal
  • The portal has plain paragraphs that introduce common topics; these paragraphs, in turn link the detailed pages about the subject.
  • At the bottom of the portal there is a FullSearch for the corresponding category - this ensures less frequent topics are also visible and discoverable from the portal - and can be later merged, or improved. Or a proper paragraph/link can be added to introduce them.

We could use Category pages for this, but far less people will visit them, and it takes more maintenance. FullSearch on the corresponding portal is much more visible, and it "forces" us to keep the page list clean/short - something lang:en and the current cleanup will help solving. See for example CommandLineInterface where it makes content duplication/too many pages symptom very evident.

When all pages from a category are cleanly linked from the corresponding portal page, FullSearch is indeed not needed. But this is almost never the case.

  • we don't have to hesitate too much to delete their content

I read each candidate for deletion completely to make sure no interesting content would be lost, and move it to other pages if needed.

  • I'm unsure these wiki issues have been discussed within Debian lately

I left a message on #debian-www IRC about this, and no one seems to disagree (got no answer at all :) ). So I guess it's fine, as long no one reverts my changes :)

A plus!

The Game page looks great!

  • I left a message on #debian-www IRC about this, and no one seems to disagree (got no answer at all :)

You didn't stick around long enough for anyone to comment. Please keep your IRC client in the #debian-www channel and join the debian-www mailing list, there has been at least one discussion about you there:

https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/06092019183508.5a8f735e9444@desktop.copernicus.org.uk


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