Differences between revisions 2 and 43 (spanning 41 versions)
Revision 2 as of 2019-08-15 19:51:01
Size: 876
Editor: nodiscc
Comment: add todos
Revision 43 as of 2019-09-08 01:17:16
Size: 7579
Editor: PaulWise
Comment: suggest joining the debian-www channel/list
Deletions are marked like this. Additions are marked like this.
Line 13: Line 13:
 * ''[[PackageManagement]]'' (portal)
 * ''[[Software]]'' (portal)
 * ''[[CommandLineInterface]]'' (portal)
 * ''[[SystemAdministration]]'' (portal)
 * ''[[DebianInstaller/Preseed]]''
 * ''[[Packaging]]'' (portal)
 * ''[[Sound]]'' (portal)
 * ''[[Firefox]]''
 * ''[[Printing]]'' (portal)
 * ''[[SecurityManagement]]'' (portal)



----
Line 17: Line 32:
 * Macros: {{{DebPkg:}}}, {{{DebMan:1}}}  * RandomPage
* Macros: {{{DebPkg:}}}, {{{DebMan:bash.1|bash}}}
Line 19: Line 35:
 * Add Wikipedia links if relevant
Line 20: Line 37:
=== TODO === === External sources ===
Line 22: Line 39:
 * https://wiki.debian.org/UseCdBurner
 * https://wiki.debian.org/CategoryPackageManagement
 * https://wiki.debian.org/AudioVideo
 * https://wiki.debian.org/Software
 * https://salsa.debian.org/nodiscc2-guest/awesome-linuxaudio -> {{{Multimedia}}}
  
=== Work in progress ===

 * AptConfiguration
 * PackageManagementTools
 * [[DebianFirewall]], [[Firewalls]]
 * [[BTS]], [[bugreport]]
 * Add Arch Wiki links if relevant

'''Obsolete pages:''' <<FullSearch(CategoryObsolete)>>

'''Redundant pages:''' <<FullSearch(CategoryRedundant)>>

'''Command line interface:'''<<FullSearch(CategoryCommandLineInterface)>>

=== Talks ===

{{{#!wiki yellow/solid
Hi nodiscc,

It looks like you have some good plans against the wiki mess, I haven't followed the details but I can only agree with the cleaning work, orphaned pages, not categorized ones, duplicate ones and what else.
If you want we can discuss this somewhere, it might help if we're several agreeing on what needs to be done.

See you!

ccts
}}}
{{{#!wiki green/solid
Hi ccts, for many years I found it was hard to search for information on the debian wiki, pages are not discoverable, many pages were drafts, there was duplicate/contradictory information... so recently I started following some broad guidelines:

 * Make the wiki more readable, navigable, accessible, refresh some older content
 * Deduplicate/merge content across pages on topics I understand, or use links.
 * Merge pages that have almost no content with their "parent" page, in general avoid creating extra pages when the content could fit in an existing page. No one will maintain them.
 * Standardize portals, use them as landing pages that any user from any knowledge level can understand and find information from.
 * Add categories to all pages, Redirect CategoryCategory pages to their respective portal, add `fullsearch` macros for the Category on the portal page
 * Standardize page names/formatting, spacing, link syntax, link cleanup... (EditorGuide)
 * I have amassed a good amount of Debian docs on a personal wiki, wanted to merge some of it here, but couldn't cleanly do it without some refactoring (still ongoing)
 * Everything linked from FrontPage should be high quality content
 * There is some good general advice at https://wiki.c2.com/?GoodStyle https://wiki.c2.com/?RefactoringWikiPages
 * Delegate explanation/description of general concepts to Wikipedia (copy intro, link to WP page)
}}}
{{{#!wiki blue/solid
:) I gave fullsearch a try to (see [[Game]] page for an illustration), so we're on the same line.
 * You may use the Cached version when you think you're done with the category. I admit I don't remember when the cache gets regenerated unless you explicitly click to do it.
 * You may add the lang:en search parameter, which means translators also have to replace it with the right one. That also means categories which are named after a language shouldn't exist (only some french ones existing IIRC).

Using fullsearch has a few drawbacks, some Debian wiki pages mostly contain list of software, with comments... (lists with `DebPkg` shortcut) so if you switch to a `FullSearch` list, you won't be able to put comments on each line. Some people used them to "recommend" some packages over others but I don't think this should be the main purpose of a wiki.
Also, making lists is the purpose of categories, so logically, pages shouldn't need the fullsearch macro to do that, and people would navigate using the categories. Right now there are a few redirections (url rewrite in wiki admin?), I believe they could be removed if we want to give back their purpose to categories.

Right now I have no big idea, maybe I'll do nothing but if I attempt to join your efforts :) I may have an eye on the orphaned pages, as there should be none IMO.
I also feel some pages content turned quite old or irelevant so we don't have to hesitate too much to delete their content.
That's what I think you have been doing so it's probably no big news.

I'm unsure these wiki issues have been discussed within Debian lately, I'm not part of any team, this should also clarify my words are in no way something official :)

See you!}}}

{{{#!wiki green/solid
 . You may use the Cached version when you think you're done with the category
 . add the lang:en search parameter

Good, I will do that.

 . some Debian wiki pages mostly contain list of software, with comments... (lists with `DebPkg` shortcut) so if you switch to a `FullSearch` list, you won't be able to put comments on each line.

I will probably not switch those pages, I mainly user `FullSearch` on portals:

 * Each page is attached to one or more categories
 * Each Category page redirects to the corresponding portal
 * The portal has plain paragraphs that introduce common topics; these paragraphs, in turn link the detailed pages about the subject.
 * At the bottom of the portal there is a `FullSearch` for the corresponding category - this ensures less frequent topics are also visible and discoverable from the portal - and can be later merged, or improved. Or a proper paragraph/link can be added to introduce them.

We ''could'' use Category pages for this, but far less people will visit them, and it takes more maintenance. `FullSearch` on the corresponding portal is much more visible, and it "forces" us to keep the page list clean/short - something `lang:en` and the current cleanup will help solving. See for example CommandLineInterface where it makes content duplication/too many pages symptom very evident.

When all pages from a category are cleanly linked from the corresponding portal page, `FullSearch` is indeed not needed. But this is almost never the case.

 . we don't have to hesitate too much to delete their content

I read each candidate for deletion completely to make sure no interesting content would be lost, and move it to other pages if needed.

 . I'm unsure these wiki issues have been discussed within Debian lately

I left a message on #debian-www IRC about this, and no one seems to disagree (got no answer at all :) ). So I guess it's fine, as long no one reverts my changes :)

A plus!

The [[Game]] page looks great!
}}}

{{{#!wiki pink/solid
 . I left a message on #debian-www IRC about this, and no one seems to disagree (got no answer at all :)

You didn't stick around long enough for anyone to comment. Please keep your IRC client in the #debian-www channel and join the debian-www mailing list, there has been at least one discussion about you there:

https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/06092019183508.5a8f735e9444@desktop.copernicus.org.uk
}}}
Line 28: Line 138:
## Uncomment the next line if you are a wiki translator
## CategoryWikiTranslator


Wiki consolidation/cleanup/maintenance

External sources

Work in progress

Obsolete pages:

Redundant pages:

  1. AlsaMidi
  2. AptMove
  3. BTS/BugTag
  4. BTS/HowTo
  5. Backup
  6. BackupAndRecoveryWork
  7. Bash
  8. BourneShell
  9. BrowserApps
  10. BugReport
  11. BugReport/WorkingOn
  12. BugTriage
  13. CategoryRedundant
  14. CommandLine
  15. CommandsCLI
  16. DebianFirewall
  17. DebianInstaller/SataRaid
  18. DebianInstaller/SoftwareRaidRoot
  19. DebianSoftware
  20. DebianWiki/Administration
  21. DefaultWebBrowser
  22. EduCheesetracker
  23. EduSoundtracker
  24. Firefox
  25. Firewalls
  26. HowToPackageForDebian
  27. HowtoUseBTS
  28. Icedove
  29. JabberClients
  30. LCD
  31. Linux volume management
  32. LinuxRaidForAdmins
  33. Manual-Howto
  34. MidiHardware
  35. Mozilla
  36. MultimediaCodecs
  37. NetworkApplication
  38. NetworkFAQ
  39. Part-UUID
  40. Peer2Peer
  41. QuickInstall
  42. RemoteFiles
  43. ShellCommands
  44. ShellConfiguration
  45. ShellTricks
  46. SoftwareRAID
  47. Tar
  48. TheUnixWay
  49. UserInterface
  50. WHEEL/PAM
  51. WindowsEquivalent
  52. XCP
  53. Zg2ShellStartup
  54. ar/CommandLineInterface
  55. bn/CommandLineInterface
  56. ccts
  57. coreutils
  58. de/Manual-Howto
  59. de/NetworkApplication
  60. deb
  61. es/CommandLineInterface
  62. es/TheUnixWay
  63. fr/Bash
  64. fr/HowtoUseBTS
  65. fr/ShellTricks
  66. fr/TheUnixWay
  67. ftp.debian.org
  68. id/CommandLineInterface
  69. it/BTS/HowTo
  70. it/Bash
  71. it/CommandLine
  72. it/CommandsCLI
  73. it/DebianFirewall
  74. it/DebianSoftware
  75. it/Firefox
  76. it/Firewalls
  77. it/HowToPackageForDebian
  78. it/JabberClients
  79. it/Manual-Howto
  80. it/MultimediaCodecs
  81. it/NetworkApplication
  82. it/Part-UUID
  83. it/Peer2Peer
  84. it/QuickInstall
  85. it/RemoteFiles
  86. it/ShellCommands
  87. it/ShellConfiguration
  88. it/ShellTricks
  89. it/TheUnixWay
  90. it/UserInterface
  91. it/WindowsEquivalent
  92. it/coreutils
  93. it/deb
  94. it/rootfs
  95. ko/CommandLineInterface
  96. ms/CommandLineInterface
  97. nodiscc
  98. pamusb
  99. partclone
  100. pt_BR/BTS/BugTag
  101. pt_BR/BTS/HowTo
  102. pt_BR/Bash
  103. pt_BR/BugReport
  104. pt_BR/DebianInstaller/SataRaid
  105. pt_BR/Firefox
  106. pt_BR/HowToPackageForDebian
  107. pt_BR/Part-UUID
  108. pt_BR/QuickInstall
  109. pt_BR/ShellCommands
  110. pt_BR/TheUnixWay
  111. pt_BR/deb
  112. rootfs
  113. ru/CommandLineInterface
  114. ru/Part-UUID
  115. sv/CommandLineInterface
  116. uk/RemoteFiles
  117. uk/WikiTag
  118. vi/commandlineinterface
  119. zh_CN/CommandLineInterface
  120. zh_CN/HowToPackageForDebian
  121. zh_CN/Manual-Howto

Command line interface:

Talks

Hi nodiscc,

It looks like you have some good plans against the wiki mess, I haven't followed the details but I can only agree with the cleaning work, orphaned pages, not categorized ones, duplicate ones and what else. If you want we can discuss this somewhere, it might help if we're several agreeing on what needs to be done.

See you!

ccts

Hi ccts, for many years I found it was hard to search for information on the debian wiki, pages are not discoverable, many pages were drafts, there was duplicate/contradictory information... so recently I started following some broad guidelines:

  • Make the wiki more readable, navigable, accessible, refresh some older content
  • Deduplicate/merge content across pages on topics I understand, or use links.
  • Merge pages that have almost no content with their "parent" page, in general avoid creating extra pages when the content could fit in an existing page. No one will maintain them.
  • Standardize portals, use them as landing pages that any user from any knowledge level can understand and find information from.
  • Add categories to all pages, Redirect CategoryCategory pages to their respective portal, add fullsearch macros for the Category on the portal page

  • Standardize page names/formatting, spacing, link syntax, link cleanup... (?EditorGuide)

  • I have amassed a good amount of Debian docs on a personal wiki, wanted to merge some of it here, but couldn't cleanly do it without some refactoring (still ongoing)
  • Everything linked from FrontPage should be high quality content

  • There is some good general advice at https://wiki.c2.com/?GoodStyle https://wiki.c2.com/?RefactoringWikiPages

  • Delegate explanation/description of general concepts to Wikipedia (copy intro, link to WP page)

:) I gave fullsearch a try to (see Game page for an illustration), so we're on the same line.

  • You may use the Cached version when you think you're done with the category. I admit I don't remember when the cache gets regenerated unless you explicitly click to do it.
  • You may add the lang:en search parameter, which means translators also have to replace it with the right one. That also means categories which are named after a language shouldn't exist (only some french ones existing IIRC).

Using fullsearch has a few drawbacks, some Debian wiki pages mostly contain list of software, with comments... (lists with DebPkg shortcut) so if you switch to a FullSearch list, you won't be able to put comments on each line. Some people used them to "recommend" some packages over others but I don't think this should be the main purpose of a wiki. Also, making lists is the purpose of categories, so logically, pages shouldn't need the fullsearch macro to do that, and people would navigate using the categories. Right now there are a few redirections (url rewrite in wiki admin?), I believe they could be removed if we want to give back their purpose to categories.

Right now I have no big idea, maybe I'll do nothing but if I attempt to join your efforts :) I may have an eye on the orphaned pages, as there should be none IMO. I also feel some pages content turned quite old or irelevant so we don't have to hesitate too much to delete their content. That's what I think you have been doing so it's probably no big news.

I'm unsure these wiki issues have been discussed within Debian lately, I'm not part of any team, this should also clarify my words are in no way something official :)

See you!

  • You may use the Cached version when you think you're done with the category
  • add the lang:en search parameter

Good, I will do that.

  • some Debian wiki pages mostly contain list of software, with comments... (lists with DebPkg shortcut) so if you switch to a FullSearch list, you won't be able to put comments on each line.

I will probably not switch those pages, I mainly user FullSearch on portals:

  • Each page is attached to one or more categories
  • Each Category page redirects to the corresponding portal
  • The portal has plain paragraphs that introduce common topics; these paragraphs, in turn link the detailed pages about the subject.
  • At the bottom of the portal there is a FullSearch for the corresponding category - this ensures less frequent topics are also visible and discoverable from the portal - and can be later merged, or improved. Or a proper paragraph/link can be added to introduce them.

We could use Category pages for this, but far less people will visit them, and it takes more maintenance. FullSearch on the corresponding portal is much more visible, and it "forces" us to keep the page list clean/short - something lang:en and the current cleanup will help solving. See for example CommandLineInterface where it makes content duplication/too many pages symptom very evident.

When all pages from a category are cleanly linked from the corresponding portal page, FullSearch is indeed not needed. But this is almost never the case.

  • we don't have to hesitate too much to delete their content

I read each candidate for deletion completely to make sure no interesting content would be lost, and move it to other pages if needed.

  • I'm unsure these wiki issues have been discussed within Debian lately

I left a message on #debian-www IRC about this, and no one seems to disagree (got no answer at all :) ). So I guess it's fine, as long no one reverts my changes :)

A plus!

The Game page looks great!

  • I left a message on #debian-www IRC about this, and no one seems to disagree (got no answer at all :)

You didn't stick around long enough for anyone to comment. Please keep your IRC client in the #debian-www channel and join the debian-www mailing list, there has been at least one discussion about you there:

https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/06092019183508.5a8f735e9444@desktop.copernicus.org.uk


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