Translation(s): none

(!) Discussion

Choosing a page namespace for Internationalizing DebianWiki : This page attempts to list various problematics and constraints to be taken into account before choosing a namespace... This should help choose the best solution.

Your contribution is welcome :

Constraints and needs

Easy to search (#Search)
It should be easy to search.
  1. English version should be presented if localized version isn't available.
  2. Find a page using localized words (assuming the user clicks "Full-text" search).

Clear page subject (#Subject)

Is it easy to identify what's the subject of a page, according to it's title ? SupportFrench and InstallDebian.pl are prone to confusion), as opposed to fr.wiki.debian.org/Support or pl/!?InstallDebian.

Clear page language (#IdLang)

Is it easy to identify what's the of a language ? A French visitor couldn't guess if he should click on Support or Assistance to get the French version (since both words are synonyms)...

Linking translated pages (#OtherLng)
Make it easy to find the same page in other languages.(moinmoin don't have a feature to automatically connect/link localized versions of a page).

Moinmoin CamelCase linking (#MmLnk)

Does Moinmoin create link automatically ? page containing a slash ("/") or a period (".") doesn't work, like InstallDebian/French or InstallDebian.fr . However, single word are never converted as links by moinmoin, so it's not really an issue since editors have to write ["Foo"] anyway... they can write ["fr/Foo"] too.

Country code collision (#IsoColl)

.pl can be the short for perl files or polish translations.

Language name collision (#LangColl)
Some language may be spelled the same way in their local language (?).

Translated word collision (#WrdColl)

The word Installation is the same in French and English. not to mention that nouns, projects name , brands, technologies aren't translated : Debian, DebianInstaller, iSCSI, HP.

Problem mapping pages(#Map)
It should be easy to find the different versions/languages of a page, in case link is missing.

Page not translated
When a page isn't translated, the visitor should be presented the English version.

URL truncated by MUA (#TruncURL)

Some links may get broken by some MUA, like http://wiki.debian.org/Hardware.fr http://wiki.debian.org/Hardware(fr)

relative links (#RelLnk)
breaks relative links : "../Subpage" in Hardware/Wifi must be rewritten "../../Subpage/French" for Hardware/Wifi/French.

short URLs (#ShortURL)

it's best if URL don't become too long. unlike : http://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Dell/Latitude/Etch/PortugueseBrazil

sub-locales
People from Brazil will appreciate if we handle pt_BR nicely.

wishlist

Wishlist features, not implemented by Moinmoin.

Automatic language Negotiation (#LangNego)

When a user request "Hardware", the server would redirect to visitors preferred language (using the Accepted-Languages field sent in the user-agent's HTTP request).

Summary

This table is a summary of the alternatives below.

#IdLang

#Subject

#WrdColl

#IsoColl

#RelLnk

#OtherLng

#TruncURL

#ShortURL

#Map

#Search

Pages titles Translated

#wiki.debian.org/Materiel

{X}

{X}

{X}

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

#wiki.debian.org/fr/Matériel

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

#wiki.debian.org/fr/Materiel

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

Pages titles in English

#fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware_rewrite

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

#fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware_vhost

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

{X}

#fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware_layers

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

#wiki.debian.org/Hardware/French

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

#wiki.debian.org/HardwareFrancais

{X}

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

#wiki.debian.org/HardwareFrench

{X}

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

#wiki.debian.org/Hardware.Fr

?

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

#wiki.debian.org/Hardware.fr

{X}

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

#wiki.debian.org/Hardware-fr

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

#wiki.debian.org/Hardware_fr

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

#wiki.debian.org/French/Hardware

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

#wiki.debian.org/FrenchHardware

{X}

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

#wiki.debian.org/Fr/Hardware

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

#wiki.debian.org/fr/Hardware

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

#wiki.debian.org/FrHardware

{X}

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

#wiki.debian.org/DebFr/Hardware

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

#wiki.debian.org/DebFrHardware

{X}

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

Possible tricks

stub

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

Legend :

Alternatives with Transalated pages names

The following are various alternatives for translation page names for a sample 'Hardware' page, where the page title is translated.

wiki.debian.org/Materiel

Cons:

Pros:

wiki.debian.org/fr/Matériel

Cons:

Pros:

Useful implementation Hints

wiki.debian.org/fr/Materiel

Cons:

Pros:

Alternatives with English pages names

The following are various alternatives for translation page names for a sample 'Hardware' page, where the page title is not translated (i.e in English).

fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware

This can be achieved by two means :

fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware (vhost)

Create multiple moinmoin wiki instances in multiple virtual hosts.

Cons

fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware (rewrite)

Use Apache to rewrite fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware to wiki.debian.org/fr/Hardware. We would need to hack moinmoin to fallback to English version.

Cons

fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware (layers)

Modify Moinmoin to use the English version as underlay of any other language. Pros

Cons

wiki.debian.org/Hardware/French

Cons

wiki.debian.org/HardwareFrench

Cons

wiki.debian.org/Hardware.Fr

Cons

see trick #page-list-macro.

wiki.debian.org/Hardware.fr

Cons

wiki.debian.org/Hardware_fr

Cons

wiki.debian.org/Hardware-fr

Cons

wiki.debian.org/French/Hardware

wiki.debian.org/FrenchHardware

wiki.debian.org/Fr/Hardware

wiki.debian.org/fr/Hardware

Pros :

wiki.debian.org/FrHardware

Cons

wiki.debian.org/DebFr/Hardware

Cons

(I guess It was actually a short for ?DebianFrFoobar )

wiki.debian.org/DebFrHardware

Possible Tricks

The following tricks can be used to improve Alternatives with English pages names proposals.

wiki.debian.org/fr/Materiel stub

Create linker to help non-english people to find article by title search tool?

Pros :

Cons :

Connecting Translated pages

This table is a summary of the alternatives below.

Sample page name

#WrdColl

#page-list-macro

#translated-pages

#i18nPrefix

#wiki.debian.org/Materiel

{X}

{X}

(./)

{X}

#fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware_rewrite

(./)

{X}

?

(./)

#fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware_vhost

(./)

{X}

?

(./)

#wiki.debian.org/Hardware/French

(./)

{X}

(./)

{X}

#wiki.debian.org/HardwareFrancais

(./)

{X}

(./)

{X}

#wiki.debian.org/HardwareFrench

(./)

{X}

(./)

{X}

#wiki.debian.org/Hardware.Fr

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

#wiki.debian.org/Hardware.fr

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

#wiki.debian.org/Hardware-fr

(./)

(./)

(./)

?

#wiki.debian.org/Hardware_fr

(./)

{X}

(./)

{X}

#wiki.debian.org/French/Hardware

(./)

{X}

(./)

{X}

#wiki.debian.org/FrenchHardware

(./)

{X}

(./)

{X}

#wiki.debian.org/Fr/Hardware

(./)

{X}

(./)

?

#wiki.debian.org/fr/Hardware

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

#wiki.debian.org/FrHardware

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

#wiki.debian.org/DebFr/Hardware

(./)

(./)

(./)

?

#wiki.debian.org/DebFrHardware

(./)

(./)

(./)

?

PageList for alternatives (#page-list-macro)

If the page name structure of translated pages is formally structured (#wiki.debian.org/fr/Hardware, #wiki.debian.org/Hardware.fr, #wiki.debian.org/Hardware-fr...), it's possible to use the PageList macro to list available languages, like :

List translated pages (#translated-pages)

It's possible to automatically list translated versions of the page (even if the pages names are translated). demonstration: ?TestInEnglish.

Everypage should have the following header (adjust #language en)

And the following footer.

Automatic Prefix/suffix pages (#i18nPrefix)

For fr.wiki.debian.org, wiki.debian.org/fr/* and wiki.debian.org/*.fr schemes, It's possible to automatically list alternates languages (by adding a prefix or suffix to the current page name)..

History

ToDo

Once the decision is made :

Resources


WikiVote

Vote start 05/01/2008 and will finished 15/01/2008

Mailing lists contacted on @lists.debian.org: debian-i18n, debian-l10n-english, debian-www