Translation(s): none

(!) [:/Discussion:Discussion]

Choosing a page namespace for Internationalizing DebianWiki : This page attempts to list various problematics and constraints to be taken into account before choosing a namespace... This should help choose the best solution.

Your contribution is welcome :

?TableOfContents(3)

Constraints and needs

?Anchor(Search)

Easy to search (#Search)
It should be easy to search.
  1. English version should be presented if localized version isn't available.
  2. Find a page using localized words (assuming the user clicks "Full-text" search).

?Anchor(Subject)

Clear page subject (#Subject)

Is it easy to identify what's the subject of a page, according to it's title ? SupportFrench and InstallDebian.pl are prone to confusion), as opposed to fr.wiki.debian.org/Support or pl/!?InstallDebian.

?Anchor(IdLang)

Clear page language (#IdLang)

Is it easy to identify what's the of a language ? A French visitor couldn't guess if he should click on Support or Assistance to get the French version (since both words are synonyms)...

?Anchor(OtherLng)

Linking translated pages (#OtherLng)
Make it easy to find the same page in other languages.(moinmoin don't have a feature to automatically connect/link localized versions of a page).

?Anchor(MmLnk)

Moinmoin CamelCase linking (#MmLnk)

Does Moinmoin create link automatically ? page containing a slash ("/") or a period (".") doesn't work, like InstallDebian/French or InstallDebian.fr . However, single word are never converted as links by moinmoin, so it's not really an issue since editors have to write ["Foo"] anyway... they can write ["fr/Foo"] too.

?Anchor(IsoColl)

Country code collision (#IsoColl)

.pl can be the short for perl files or polish translations.

?Anchor(LangColl)

Language name collision (#LangColl)
Some language may be spelled the same way in their local language (?).

?Anchor(WrdColl)

Translated word collision (#WrdColl)

The word Installation is the same in French and English. not to mention that nouns, projects name , brands, technologies aren't translated : Debian, DebianInstaller, iSCSI, HP.

?Anchor(Map)

Problem mapping pages(#Map)
It should be easy to find the different versions/languages of a page, in case link is missing.

?Anchor(NoTrnsl)

Page not translated
When a page isn't translated, the visitor should be presented the English version.

?Anchor(TruncURL)

URL truncated by MUA (#TruncURL)

Some links may get broken by some MUA, like [http://wiki.debian.org/Hardware].fr [http://wiki.debian.org/Hardware(fr])

?Anchor(RelLnk)

relative links (#RelLnk)
breaks relative links : "../Subpage" in Hardware/Wifi must be rewritten "../../Subpage/French" for Hardware/Wifi/French.

?Anchor(ShortURL)

short URLs (#ShortURL)

it's best if URL don't become too long. unlike : [http://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Dell/Latitude/Etch/PortugueseBrazil]

sub-locales
People from Brazil will appreciate if we handle pt_BR nicely.

wishlist

Wishlist features, not implemented by Moinmoin.

?Anchor(LangNego)

Automatic language Negotiation (#LangNego)
When a user request "Hardware", the server would redirect to visitors preferred language (using user-agent's accepted-languages header).

Summary

This table is a summary of the alternatives below.

[#?IdLang]

[#Subject]

[#?WrdColl]

[#?IsoColl]

[#?RelLnk]

[#?OtherLng]

[#TruncURL]

[#ShortURL]

[#Map]

[#Search]

Pages titles Translated

[#wiki.debian.org/Materiel]

{X}

{X}

{X}

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/fr/Matériel]

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/fr/Materiel]

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

Pages titles in English

[#fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware_rewrite]

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

[#fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware_vhost]

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

{X}

[#fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware_layers]

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/Hardware/French]

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/HardwareFrancais]

{X}

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/HardwareFrench]

{X}

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/Hardware.Fr]

?

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/Hardware.fr]

{X}

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/Hardware-fr]

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/Hardware_fr]

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/French/Hardware]

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/FrenchHardware]

{X}

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/Fr/Hardware]

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/fr/Hardware]

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/FrHardware]

{X}

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/DebFr/Hardware]

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/DebFrHardware]

{X}

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

Possible tricks

[#wiki.debian.org/fr/Materiel stub]

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

Legend :

Alternatives with Transalated pages names

The following are various alternatives for translation page names for a sample 'Hardware' page, where the page title is translated.

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/Materiel)

wiki.debian.org/Materiel

Cons:

Pros:

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/fr/Matériel)

wiki.debian.org/fr/Matériel

Cons:

Pros:

Useful implementation Hints

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/fr/Materiel)

wiki.debian.org/fr/Materiel

Cons:

Pros:

Alternatives with English pages names

The following are various alternatives for translation page names for a sample 'Hardware' page, where the page title is not translated (i.e in English).

?Anchor(fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware)

fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware

This can be achieved by two means :

?Anchor(fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware_vhost)

fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware (vhost)

Create multiple moinmoin wiki instances in multiple virtual hosts.

Cons

?Anchor(fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware_rewrite)

fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware (rewrite)

Use Apache to rewrite fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware to wiki.debian.org/fr/Hardware. We would need to hack moinmoin to fallback to English version.

Cons

?Anchor(fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware_layers)

fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware (layers)

Modify Moinmoin to use the English version as underlay of any other language. Pros

Cons

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/Hardware/French)

wiki.debian.org/Hardware/French

Cons

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/HardwareFrench)

wiki.debian.org/HardwareFrench

Cons

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/Hardware.Fr)

wiki.debian.org/Hardware.Fr

Cons

see trick [#page-list-macro].

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/Hardware.fr)

wiki.debian.org/Hardware.fr

Cons

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/Hardware_fr)

wiki.debian.org/Hardware_fr

Cons

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/Hardware-fr)

wiki.debian.org/Hardware-fr

Cons

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/French/Hardware)

wiki.debian.org/French/Hardware

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/FrenchHardware)

wiki.debian.org/FrenchHardware

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/Fr/Hardware)

wiki.debian.org/Fr/Hardware

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/fr/Hardware)

wiki.debian.org/fr/Hardware

Pros :

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/FrHardware)

wiki.debian.org/FrHardware

Cons

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/DebFr/Hardware)

wiki.debian.org/DebFr/Hardware

Cons

(I guess It was actually a short for ?DebianFrFoobar )

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/DebFrHardware)

wiki.debian.org/DebFrHardware

Possible Tricks

The following tricks can be used to improve Alternatives with English pages names proposals.

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/fr/Materiel stub)

wiki.debian.org/fr/Materiel stub

Create linker to help non-english people to find article by title search tool?

Pros :

Cons :

Connecting Translated pages

This table is a summary of the alternatives below.

Sample page name

[#?WrdColl]

[#page-list-macro]

[#translated-pages]

[#i18nPrefix]

[#wiki.debian.org/Materiel]

{X}

{X}

(./)

{X}

[#fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware_rewrite]

(./)

{X}

?

(./)

[#fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware_vhost]

(./)

{X}

?

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/Hardware/French]

(./)

{X}

(./)

{X}

[#wiki.debian.org/HardwareFrancais]

(./)

{X}

(./)

{X}

[#wiki.debian.org/HardwareFrench]

(./)

{X}

(./)

{X}

[#wiki.debian.org/Hardware.Fr]

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/Hardware.fr]

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/Hardware-fr]

(./)

(./)

(./)

?

[#wiki.debian.org/Hardware_fr]

(./)

{X}

(./)

{X}

[#wiki.debian.org/French/Hardware]

(./)

{X}

(./)

{X}

[#wiki.debian.org/FrenchHardware]

(./)

{X}

(./)

{X}

[#wiki.debian.org/Fr/Hardware]

(./)

{X}

(./)

?

[#wiki.debian.org/fr/Hardware]

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/FrHardware]

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

[#wiki.debian.org/DebFr/Hardware]

(./)

(./)

(./)

?

[#wiki.debian.org/DebFrHardware]

(./)

(./)

(./)

?

?Anchor(page-list-macro)

PageList for alternatives (#page-list-macro)

If the page name structure of translated pages is formally structured ([#wiki.debian.org/fr/Hardware], [#wiki.debian.org/Hardware.fr], [#wiki.debian.org/Hardware-fr]...), it's possible to use the PageList macro to list available languages, like :

?Anchor(translated-pages)

List translated pages (#translated-pages)

It's possible to automatically list translated versions of the page (even if the pages names are translated). demonstration: ["?TestInEnglish"].

Everypage should have the following header (adjust #language en)

And the following footer.

?Anchor(i18nPrefix)

Automatic Prefix/suffix pages (#i18nPrefix)

For fr.wiki.debian.org, wiki.debian.org/fr/* and wiki.debian.org/*.fr schemes, It's possible to automatically list alternates languages (by adding a prefix or suffix to the current page name)..

History

ToDo

Once the decision is made :

Resources


?Anchor(wikivote)

WikiVote

Please read ["?DebianWiki/WikiVote"] for instruction:

Vote start 05/01/2008 and will finished 15/01/2008

Mailing lists contacted on @lists.debian.org: debian-i18n, debian-l10n-english, debian-www


?CategoryWiki