Differences between revisions 2 and 3
Revision 2 as of 2007-11-24 20:03:20
Size: 9365
Editor: FranklinPiat
Comment: add some history.
Revision 3 as of 2007-11-27 07:46:15
Size: 10051
Editor: FranklinPiat
Comment: reprhase, presentation, etc. split fr.wiki.debian.org*
Deletions are marked like this. Additions are marked like this.
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 Your recontributin is welcome : Your contribution is welcome :
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 [[TableOfContents(2)]] [[TableOfContents(3)]]
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 Easy to identify the purpose of the page (#Subject) :: [[Anchor(Subject)]] Is it easy to identify what's the subject of a page, according to it's title ? SupportFrench and InstallDebian.pl are prone to confusion), as opposed to {{{fr.wiki.debian.org/Support}}}. [[Anchor(Subject)]]
 Clear page subject (#Subject) ::
Is it easy to identify what's the subject of a page, according to it's title ? {{{SupportFrench}}} and {{{InstallDebian.pl}}} are prone to confusion), as opposed to {{{fr.wiki.debian.org/Support}}} or pl/!InstallDebian.
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 Easy to identify language used (#IdLang) :: [[Anchor(IdLang)]] Is it easy to identify what's the language ? A French visitor couldn't guess if he should click on ''Support'' or ''Assistance'' to get the French version... [[Anchor(IdLang)]]
 Clear page language (#IdLang) :: Is it easy to identify what's the of a language ? A French visitor couldn't guess if he should click on {{{Support}}} or {{{Assistance}}} to get the French version (since both words are synonyms)...
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 Linking translated pages (#OtherLng) :: [[Anchor(OtherLng)]] Make it easy to find the same page in other languages moinmoin don't have a feature to automatically connect (link) localized version of a page). [[Anchor(OtherLng)]]
 Linking translated pages (#OtherLng) :: Make it easy to find the same page in other languages.(moinmoin don't have a feature to automatically connect/link localized versions of a page).
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 Moinmoin CamelCase linking (#MmLnk) :: [[Anchor(MmLnk)]] Does Moinmoin create link automatically ? page containing a slash ("/") or a period (".") doesn't work, like InstallDebian/French or InstallDebian.fr . However, single word are never converted as links by moinmoin, so it's not really an issue. [[Anchor(MmLnk)]]
Moinmoin CamelCase linking (#MmLnk) :: Does Moinmoin create link automatically ? page containing a slash ("/") or a period (".") doesn't work, like {{{InstallDebian/French}}} or {{{InstallDebian.fr}}} . However, single word are never converted as links by moinmoin, so it's not really an issue since editors have to write {{{["Foo"]}}} anyway... they can write {{{["fr/Foo"]}}} too.
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 Country code collision (#IsoColl) :: [[Anchor(IsoColl)]] ".pl" can be the short for ''perl'' or ''polish'' [[Anchor(IsoColl)]]
Country code collision (#IsoColl) :: {{{.pl}}} can be the short for ''perl'' files or ''polish'' translations.
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 Language name collision (#LangColl) :: [[Anchor(LangColl)]] Some language may be spelled the same way in their local language. [[Anchor(LangColl)]]
Language name collision (#LangColl) :: Some language may be spelled the same way in their local language (?).
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 Translated word collision (#WrdColl) :: [[Anchor(WrdColl)]] the word for Installation is the same in French and English. [[Anchor(WrdColl)]]
 Translated word collision (#WrdColl) :: The word ''Installation'' is the same in French and English. not to mention that nouns, projects name , brands, technologies aren't translated : {{{Debian}}}, {{{DebianInstaller}}}, {{{iSCSI}}}, {{{HP}}}.
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 Problem mapping pages(#Map) :: [[Anchor(Map)]] It should be easy to find the different version(language) of a page, in case link is missing. [[Anchor(Map)]]
Problem mapping pages(#Map) :: It should be easy to find the different versions/languages of a page, in case link is missing.
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 Page not translated :: When a page isn't translated, the visitor should be directed to the English version. [[Anchor(NoTrnsl)]]
Page not translated :: When a page isn't translated, the visitor should be presented the English version.
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 URL truncated by MUA (#TruncURL) :: [[Anchor(TruncURL)]] Some links may get broken by some MUA, like [http://wiki.debian.org/Hardware].fr [http://wiki.debian.org/Hardware(fr]) [[Anchor(TruncURL)]]
URL truncated by MUA (#TruncURL) :: Some links may get broken by some MUA, like [http://wiki.debian.org/Hardware].fr [http://wiki.debian.org/Hardware(fr])
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 relative links (#RelLnk) :: [[Anchor(RelLnk)]] breaks relative links : "../Subpage" in Hardware/Wifi must be rewritten "../../Subpage/French" for Hardware/Wifi/French [[Anchor(RelLnk)]]
relative links (#RelLnk) :: breaks relative links : "../Subpage" in Hardware/Wifi must be rewritten "../../Subpage/French" for Hardware/Wifi/French.
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 short URLs (#ShortURL) :: [[Anchor(ShortURL)]] it's best if URL don't become too long. unlike : [http://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Dell/Latitude/PortugueseBrazil] [[Anchor(ShortURL)]]
short URLs (#ShortURL) :: it's best if URL don't become too long. unlike : [http://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Dell/Latitude/Etch/PortugueseBrazil]
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||[#fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware] || (./) || (./) || (./) || (./) || (./) || (./) || (./) || (./) || {X} || {X} || ||[#fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware_rewrite]|| (./) || (./) || (./) || (./) || (./) || (./) || (./) || (./) || (./) || (./) ||
||[#fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware_vhost
] || (./) || (./) || (./) || (./) || (./) || (./) || (./) || (./) || {X} || {X} ||
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=== Multiple moinmoin instances ===
Create multiple moinmoin wiki instances.
[[Anchor(fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware_vhost)]]
=== fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware (vhost) ===
Create multiple moinmoin wiki instances in multiple virtual hosts.
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=== Apache rewrite URLs ===
''Assuming we use Apache to rewrite fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware to wiki.debian.org/fr/Hardware''. We would need to hack moinmoin to fallback to English version.
[[Anchor(fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware_rewrite)]]
=== fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware (rewrite) ===
Use Apache to rewrite fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware to wiki.debian.org/fr/Hardware. We would need to hack moinmoin to fallback to English version.
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 * The pages are accessible through multiple URI (fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware and wiki.debian.org/fr/Hardware) which could lead to a major confusion !  * The pages are accessible through multiple URI (fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware and wiki.debian.org/fr/Hardware) which could lead to a major confusion (accidental deletion) !
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= Resources =
 * Wikipedia's WikiPedia:List_of_ISO_639-1_codes
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CategoryProposal

Choosing a page namespace for Internationalizing DebianWiki : This page attempts to list various problematics and constraints to be taken into account before choosing a namespace... This should help choose the best solution.

Your contribution is welcome :

  • Add more constraints / needs below.
  • Add more namespace proposal.
  • Add brilliant ideas on how to implement those namespaces too !

?TableOfContents(3)

Constraints and needs

Easy to search
It should be easy to search. 1. English version should be presented if localized version isn't available. 2. Find a page using localized words (assuming the user clicks "Full-text" search).

?Anchor(Subject)

Clear page subject (#Subject)

Is it easy to identify what's the subject of a page, according to it's title ? SupportFrench and InstallDebian.pl are prone to confusion), as opposed to fr.wiki.debian.org/Support or pl/!?InstallDebian.

?Anchor(IdLang)

Clear page language (#IdLang)

Is it easy to identify what's the of a language ? A French visitor couldn't guess if he should click on Support or Assistance to get the French version (since both words are synonyms)...

?Anchor(OtherLng)

Linking translated pages (#OtherLng)
Make it easy to find the same page in other languages.(moinmoin don't have a feature to automatically connect/link localized versions of a page).

?Anchor(MmLnk)

Moinmoin CamelCase linking (#MmLnk)

Does Moinmoin create link automatically ? page containing a slash ("/") or a period (".") doesn't work, like InstallDebian/French or InstallDebian.fr . However, single word are never converted as links by moinmoin, so it's not really an issue since editors have to write ["Foo"] anyway... they can write ["fr/Foo"] too.

?Anchor(IsoColl)

Country code collision (#IsoColl)

.pl can be the short for perl files or polish translations.

?Anchor(LangColl)

Language name collision (#LangColl)
Some language may be spelled the same way in their local language (?).

?Anchor(WrdColl)

Translated word collision (#WrdColl)

The word Installation is the same in French and English. not to mention that nouns, projects name , brands, technologies aren't translated : Debian, DebianInstaller, iSCSI, HP.

?Anchor(Map)

Problem mapping pages(#Map)
It should be easy to find the different versions/languages of a page, in case link is missing.

?Anchor(NoTrnsl)

Page not translated
When a page isn't translated, the visitor should be presented the English version.

?Anchor(TruncURL)

URL truncated by MUA (#TruncURL)

Some links may get broken by some MUA, like [http://wiki.debian.org/Hardware].fr [http://wiki.debian.org/Hardware(fr])

?Anchor(RelLnk)

relative links (#RelLnk)
breaks relative links : "../Subpage" in Hardware/Wifi must be rewritten "../../Subpage/French" for Hardware/Wifi/French.

?Anchor(ShortURL)

short URLs (#ShortURL)

it's best if URL don't become too long. unlike : [http://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Dell/Latitude/Etch/PortugueseBrazil]

sub-locales
People from Brazil will appreciate if we handle pt_BR nicely.


Summary

This table is a summary of the alternatives below.

Sample page name

[#?IdLang]

[#Subject]

[#?WrdColl]

[#?IsoColl]

[#?RelLnk]

[#?OtherLng]

[#TruncURL]

[#ShortURL]

[#Map]

[#Search]

[#wiki.debian.org/Materiel]

{X}

{X}

{X}

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

[#fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware_rewrite]

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

[#fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware_vhost]

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

{X}

[#wiki.debian.org/Hardware/French]

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/HardwareFrancais]

{X}

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/HardwareFrench]

{X}

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/Hardware.Fr]

?

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/Hardware.fr]

{X}

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/French/Hardware]

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/FrenchHardware]

{X}

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

{X}

(./)

{X}

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/Fr/Hardware]

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/fr/Hardware]

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/FrHardware]

{X}

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/DebFr/Hardware]

?

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

[#wiki.debian.org/DebFrHardware]

{X}

{X}

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

(./)

Legend :

  • {X} The namespace doesn't support the feature properly

  • (./) The namespace supports the feature properly.

  • ? Undecided / Not clear, yet.

Alternatives

The following are various alternatives for translation page names for a sample 'Hardware' page. ?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/Materiel) == wiki.debian.org/Materiel =

  • Subject collision : The same word can be used for different subject in different languages
  • Language collision : two language can use the same word.
  • Difficult to guess the page language (see point above).
  • Difficult to list other languages-version of a given page.
  • Difficult to present English page if {lang} doesn't exist.

?Anchor(fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware)

fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware

This can be achieved by two means :

?Anchor(fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware_vhost)

fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware (vhost)

Create multiple moinmoin wiki instances in multiple virtual hosts.

Cons

  • Editors would have to create their accounts in each instances.
  • Non-english visitor wouldn't be able to search in English pages (someone proposed to use English as underlay, which could solve this.).

?Anchor(fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware_rewrite)

fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware (rewrite)

Use Apache to rewrite fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware to wiki.debian.org/fr/Hardware. We would need to hack moinmoin to fallback to English version.

Cons

  • The pages are accessible through multiple URI (fr.wiki.debian.org/Hardware and wiki.debian.org/fr/Hardware) which could lead to a major confusion (accidental deletion) !

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/Hardware/French)

wiki.debian.org/Hardware/French

Cons

  • Breaks ?SubPages relative Links.

  • If we wanted to have a page about "I18n/French", we should name it "I18n/French/French" and "I18n/French/English" ! (that's unlikely to happend)

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/HardwareFrench)

wiki.debian.org/HardwareFrench

Cons

  • Can be ambigous : consider ?WhyFrench ; ?SupportFrench, etc..

  • The URL could become long for some language (esp. ?PortugueseBrazil)

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/Hardware.Fr)

wiki.debian.org/Hardware.Fr

Cons

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/Hardware.fr)

wiki.debian.org/Hardware.fr

Cons

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/French/Hardware)

wiki.debian.org/French/Hardware

  • The URL could become long for some language (esp. ?PortugueseBrazil)

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/FrenchHardware)

wiki.debian.org/FrenchHardware

  • Can be ambigous : consider ?FrenchWhy ; ?FrenchSupport, etc..

  • The URL could become long for some language (esp. ?PortugueseBrazil)

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/Fr/Hardware)

wiki.debian.org/Fr/Hardware

  • Help ! any cons ?

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/fr/Hardware)

wiki.debian.org/Fr/Hardware

  • Help ! any cons ?

Pros :

  • Even better than "/Fr/*", since a wiki page name should start with an uppercase, we know that a page matching regexp:^[a-z]{2}/.*$ is a localised version.

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/FrHardware)

wiki.debian.org/FrHardware

Cons

  • ?DeInstall ?=? Desinstall ? (I hope you don't have dyslexia problem).

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/DebFr/Hardware)

wiki.debian.org/DebFr/Hardware

Cons

  • Longer, than "Fr/*" !.

(I guess It was actually a short for ?DebianFrFoobar )

?Anchor(wiki.debian.org/DebFrHardware)

wiki.debian.org/DebFrHardware

  • Longer, than "Fr/*" !.
  • ?DebDeInstall ?=? ?DebianDesinstall ? (I hope you don't have dyslexia problem).

History

Resources