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Comment: add wishlist item for wiki export, allowing for offline browsingj; included link to wiki page with more info
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## Auto-converted by kwiki2moinmoin v2005-10-07
["DebianWiki"]
----
The DebianWiki engine has changed from ["ZWiki"] to ["Kwiki"] (see the UpgradeNotes).
## page was renamed from DebianWikiEngine
#language en
||<tablestyle="width: 100%;" style="border: 0px hidden">~- Translation(s): English - [[ru/DebianWiki/Engine|Русский]]-~||<style="text-align: right; border: 0px hidden"> [[../ConventionsDiscussion|Discussion]]||
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But I suggest change to [http://wikipedia.sourceforge.net MediaWiki]. With MediaWiki we can manage more easily categories, pages in different languages (the interwiki links) and so on. == Current wiki engine ==
This wiki is currently using Moinmoin wiki engine ([[http://moinmo.in]]). Major changes to the wiki are listed in [[DebianWiki/History]].
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 * I have never used MediaWiki, and so it's hard for me to say one way or another. If/when the wiki becomes official, and is on Debian hardware, it might be time for a discussion about wiki software from whoever will be maintaining it, but for now, Kwiki it is. === The current configuration ===
 * See SystemInfo
''ToDo: list the features that are specifically enabled or disabled on this wiki''
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---- <<Anchor(features)>>
== Features ==
Here's an incomplete list of features __currently__ in use on this wiki :
 * revision control,
  * Diff between pages.
 * RSS syndication,
 * email notification,
 * Antispam
 * multiple categories,
 * code beautification plugins (highlighting)
 * "Include" Macro
 * Possibility to update a page with a batch [[TopicDebianDevel]]
 * Attachments
  * Upload attachments
  * No revision (Yes, this is a feature: it limit administration burden, against file spamming)
  * Disaply attachment inline
 * Export doc !DocBook format (to generate PDF, etc..)
 * Unicode/I18n
 * Built-in search Engine
 * Public search engine support :
  * Control what is indexed.
  * Provide a "recent changes feed" so google index new pages properly.
  * User pages are "no-index,no-follow" by default, so spamming incentive is low.
 * Possibility to easily generate a table from a shell script
 * Full history of pages contributions/contributors, which is required for license/copyright.
  * When switching to a new wiki, the migration script should migrate the contributors accounts, at least the names and email addresses.
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=== TWiki for wiki.debian.net ===
HereOn 2004-02-16: ["TWiki"], http://www.twiki.org/ , was discussed at SVLUG, http://svlug.org/meetings.shtml , on January 7th, 2004. From what little I know & have done with wikis (a couple pages on wiki.debian.net, and updates to ["DebianKDE"]), twiki seems to be a much more powerful system than the sw for wiki.debian.net . I'm wondering if anyone (such as perhaps MichaelIvey DebianWikiMaster) knows enough about wikis in general to think that it would be a substantial improvement to upgrade wiki.debian.net to twiki. Thoughts, anyone?
Wishlist:
 * possibility to edit "page section".
 * Better internationalization support (esp. translation: track revision, notify translator, etc...).
 * Synchronise/merge a page of another wiki (Debian derivatives)
 * Preview diff, before saving the page.
 * Authentication: allow signing with DD and alioth credential (!OpenId...)
 * Separate namespace for users homepages
 * Export of wiki contents, allowing for [[DebianWiki/Browsing#offline|offline browsing]]
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 * I dislike ["TWiki"] a lot. It's way too complex. I'm pretty happy with Kwiki. -- MichaelIvey == Candidate alternative wiki engines ==
List the killer features of alternatives wiki engines.
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 * MediaWiki is a great wiki software package, (used by wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org) Here are some advantages that I can think of off the top of my head
   * Ability to edit individual headings
   * Ability to link directly to headings
   * Interface to upload files (pictures, screenshots, etc)
   * Watch pages
   * diffs
   * Better wiki syntax
=== Inyoka ===
 * On the long run: Inyoka, you can see it on [[http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Startseite]].
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Christopher Huhn 23/09/2004: I apt-got ["TWiki"] installed in our intranet more than a year ago and after putting in a lot of content I do not want to miss its features - especially for editing. For the admin it may be complex but not for the user . === Joomla with Wiki-extension ===
See: ([[http://www.webhostingart.com/blog/wiki-systems-for-joomla.html]])
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I did not have time install the newest release but it seems to be another big step forward.  * Available now: Joomla with WikiBot
Reason: WikiBot bridges Joomla with the free encyclopedia Wikipedia. Words can be tagged in Joomla content to link to related articles in the encyclopedia. This tool makes it extremely convenient to bridge content on your Joomla site to the large Wikipedia database.
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A lot of its features like
 * multiple categories,
 * topic based access control,
 * revision control,
 * RSS syndication,
 * email notification,
 * session management,
 * attachments
 * code beautification plugin(s)
etc. would fit in perfect here.
----
Another advantage of Wikipedia's syntax over Kwiki's is simply that it's more widely known.
            * or: Joomla with OpenWiki
Reason: OpenWiki provides a bridge to encapsulate the PHP application DokuWiki within the Joomla system. It features a complete ACL implementation that builds on the Joomla ACL for groups such as Super Administrator, Administrator, Manager, Author, Registered, and Public. ACL permissions include create, edit, read, upload, and delete.
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In [http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2004/11/04/which_wiki.html this Wiki engines comparison] the only advantage of Kwiki is for the admin (easy installation...). I think it would be pretty ridicule for Debian to use a Wiki because it's easy to install instead of for its user-friendlyness.
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I recommend change to MediaWiki (or ["TWiki"]?). I also know Wiki engine switch is no piece of cake, due to both WikiSyntax and users' habits. The sooner the better...
--chealer
----
Firstly, thanks for your input. I appreciate your desire to help the Wiki be better. The most important thing to keep in mind for this discussion is that this is not an official Debian project, but is instead a MichaelIvey and anyone else who helps project. I have made multiple offers to the DebianAdmin team to move it to a Debian server, or even keep it on my server but make it under DebianAdmin control, so it could have a d.o address instead of d.n. So far, no one has taken me up on it.

We originally used ["ZWiki"], because it's what I knew. My server couldn't handle Zope all the time, and so we switched to Kwiki, because I'm a PerlHacker and could work with it.

As long as it's my call, we will not use ["TWiki"]. I think it is way too far away from WikiNature. It may be a great CMS, but it's not a very good Wiki in my opinion. Of course, I still prefer WardsWiki over all of them. Simplicity is good, no?

Because of the multiple requests for MediaWiki, and because I would like to see the Wiki grow, and because I '''HATE SPAMMERS''' ... I have contacted {dd:evan} who has ["ITPd"] MediaWiki. If he gets a DebianPackage of MediaWiki ready, I will install it on my server and play with it. I will even give user account access to (limited) interested parties who would like to try to make DebianWiki run well with MediaWiki.

In short, I'm listening. I like Kwiki, and think for simple office Wikis it is still one of the best choices, regardless of what the ORA article says. However, I am willing to accept that maybe it isn't best for DebianWiki. But if we're moving, I need help. I need people to say, "Hey! I'll HelpMoveDebianWikiToMediaWiki if we decide that's a good thing to do!"

Alternatively, and this isn't a TakeMyTinkertoysAndGoHome at all, although it may sound that way: I am always willing to turn over wiki.d.n and the current database to anyone with the time, energy and motivation to run the Wiki. That person could use whatever engine they want...but if it's ["TWiki"], I won't participate. Did I mention I hate ["TWiki"]? --MichaelIvey

PS: Does MediaWiki support shortcuts like dd:evan and google:search string?

----

I put a question mark for ["TWiki"] because I have no experience with it and don't really know what it is. If you say it approaches the CMS then I agree it's not an alternative. We're looking for wiki.d.o at best, not d.o.

About the MediaWiki Debian packaging status, evan [["ITPd"] phptal http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=288854] (MediaWiki dependency) and [http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=276057 MediaWiki 1.3.5] while Ashar Voultoiz separately packaged 1.4beta3. Both are MediaWiki devs and started communicating (last message on the ITP is 20041219). MediaWiki is currently 1.4beta5 and #mediawiki told me this week (20050119) was a reasonable ETA for 1.4.0. Hence we could expect MediaWiki in Sid pretty soon. Would be nice to comment on the ITP if a move is decided.

Apparently there's no conversion script from Kwiki to MediaWiki... --chealer

PS: No idea what you mean...until I edited the page :) I've never seen such functionality on any Wiki for now. ...but after an hour of Wikimedia reading ;)
check http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template#Parameters
That does it.

----

I agree that MediaWiki appears to be a fantastic codebase for running WikiPedia, but I'm not convinced that it's right for DebianWiki. Perhaps a seperate page for people to ConvinceMichaelMediaWikiRocks would be appropriate? --mdi
=== !MediaWiki ===
 * Better categories handling
 * Separate namespace for users homepages
HelpMoveDebianWikiToMediaWiki
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''This page talks about'' this ''wiki at debian.net . Is there a more appropriate page to discuss: How do I install a wiki on my personal Debian box? What wiki engines are already packaged nicely in a .deb ? -- DavidCary''

 * I know there's a page on WardsWiki about wiki engines. If you want Debian specific info, {{{apt-cache search wiki}}} would be a good start ... or start WikisOnDebian or something like that. A great way to get info on Wiki is to start a page with a catchy title and minimal (or wrong!) information. -- MichaelIvey

----

I like ["Kwiki"] and appreciate the current configuration over the previous version and configuration. While MoinMoin has caught my eye for a few features, I still use ["Kwiki"] at work and of course here.

While using my handheld or if my network connection drops, I start to dislike most wiki's and dynamic sites for their "just created it" timestamps because the page I just read is no longer cached when I click back. I think I'd rather not have my name and breadcrumbs on a page (maybe a javascript pop-up to show that stuff) in trade for the modification date of the underlying text file. -- JacobAnawalt

Translation(s): English - Русский

Discussion

Current wiki engine

This wiki is currently using Moinmoin wiki engine (http://moinmo.in). Major changes to the wiki are listed in DebianWiki/History.

The current configuration

ToDo: list the features that are specifically enabled or disabled on this wiki

Features

Here's an incomplete list of features currently in use on this wiki :

  • revision control,
    • Diff between pages.
  • RSS syndication,
  • email notification,
  • Antispam
  • multiple categories,
  • code beautification plugins (highlighting)
  • "Include" Macro
  • Possibility to update a page with a batch TopicDebianDevel

  • Attachments
    • Upload attachments
    • No revision (Yes, this is a feature: it limit administration burden, against file spamming)
    • Disaply attachment inline
  • Export doc DocBook format (to generate PDF, etc..)

  • Unicode/I18n
  • Built-in search Engine
  • Public search engine support :
    • Control what is indexed.
    • Provide a "recent changes feed" so google index new pages properly.
    • User pages are "no-index,no-follow" by default, so spamming incentive is low.
  • Possibility to easily generate a table from a shell script
  • Full history of pages contributions/contributors, which is required for license/copyright.
    • When switching to a new wiki, the migration script should migrate the contributors accounts, at least the names and email addresses.

Wishlist:

  • possibility to edit "page section".
  • Better internationalization support (esp. translation: track revision, notify translator, etc...).
  • Synchronise/merge a page of another wiki (Debian derivatives)
  • Preview diff, before saving the page.
  • Authentication: allow signing with DD and alioth credential (OpenId...)

  • Separate namespace for users homepages
  • Export of wiki contents, allowing for offline browsing

Candidate alternative wiki engines

List the killer features of alternatives wiki engines.

Inyoka

Joomla with Wiki-extension

See: (http://www.webhostingart.com/blog/wiki-systems-for-joomla.html)

  • Available now: Joomla with ?WikiBot

Reason: ?WikiBot bridges Joomla with the free encyclopedia Wikipedia. Words can be tagged in Joomla content to link to related articles in the encyclopedia. This tool makes it extremely convenient to bridge content on your Joomla site to the large Wikipedia database.

  • or: Joomla with ?OpenWiki

Reason: ?OpenWiki provides a bridge to encapsulate the PHP application DokuWiki within the Joomla system. It features a complete ACL implementation that builds on the Joomla ACL for groups such as Super Administrator, Administrator, Manager, Author, Registered, and Public. ACL permissions include create, edit, read, upload, and delete.

!MediaWiki

  • Better categories handling
  • Separate namespace for users homepages

HelpMoveDebianWikiToMediaWiki