1 19:01:41 <h01ger> #startmeeting
2 19:01:41 <MeetBot> Meeting started Fri Dec 18 19:01:41 2009 UTC. The chair is h01ger. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
3 19:01:41 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
4 19:02:13 <h01ger> #topic 1. everybody say "hi" - agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting - additions to the agenda also welcome, please notify me
5 19:02:20 * h01ger = Holger Levsen
6 19:02:27 * vagrantc = Vagrant Cascadian
7 19:02:34 * debalance = Philipp Huebner
8 19:02:45 <h01ger> i will probably have to go in 45min, but MeetBot is captable of multiple chairs now. also we should manage in short time IMO ;)
9 19:02:45 * OleA_ = Ole A Andreasen
10 19:02:48 * itais = José L. Redrejo
11 19:02:53 * jever = Jürgen Leibner
12 19:03:01 * klausade = klaus ade johnstad
13 19:03:45 <h01ger> #topic 2. who will write the summary?
14 19:04:01 <h01ger> meetbot provides logs and notes for the summary as usual
15 19:04:01 <MeetBot> h01ger: Error: "provides" is not a valid command.
16 19:04:06 <h01ger> jaja
17 19:04:17 <FBI> debian-edu: 3 de-build-guest committed revision 60258 to debian-edu: automatic commit after build from lenny-amd64-i386-powerpc-netinst
18 19:04:30 * pere = Petter Reinholdtsen
19 19:05:23 <h01ger> who volunteers for summary?
20 19:06:52 * pere can't, leaving north on sunday, and is rather busy until then.
21 19:07:01 <h01ger> #info we have no summary writer...
22 19:07:16 * h01ger suggests to proceed nonetheless... meetbot will provide something
23 19:07:40 <h01ger> one last try.
24 19:07:43 <h01ger> who volunteers for summary?
25 19:07:44 <h01ger> who volunteers for summary?
26 19:07:45 <h01ger> who volunteers for summary?
27 19:07:46 <h01ger> who volunteers for summary?
28 19:08:01 <h01ger> (shouldnt be more then 15min of work)
29 19:08:08 * jever volunteers for the summary
30 19:08:13 <h01ger> \o/
31 19:08:19 <h01ger> #info jever volunteers for the summary
32 19:08:30 <h01ger> #topic 3. status lenny
33 19:08:44 <h01ger> each bug should probably be covered in max. 5min and then discussed in the bug report or list
34 19:08:59 <h01ger> http://tinyurl.com/edulenny-releaseview-1
35 19:09:06 <pere> I'd say lenny-test is a lot better then the last release, and we should make a new alpha release soon.
36 19:09:19 <h01ger> lists 7 bugs atm. one we can ignore (updating the version), so 6 left
37 19:09:28 <h01ger> pere, (i agree) but thats topic #4
38 19:09:30 <h01ger> :)
39 19:09:47 <h01ger> #topic 3.1 status lenny - #1376: Removable media (like usb sticks) inserted into ltsp server show up on ltsp clients
40 19:10:02 <h01ger> do you agree that this bug can be fixed by documenting the issue as suggested in the bug?
41 19:10:16 <h01ger> i mean, a server should be in the server room, so this is a rare case...
42 19:10:45 <pere> did anyone try to fix it properly?
43 19:10:52 <h01ger> yes. danielsan.
44 19:11:02 <h01ger> didnt work out. itais is struggling with it too
45 19:11:09 <OleA_> this should not be a problem, I have to remove the USB in the middle of the installation ;)
46 19:11:27 <pere> not all ltsp servers will be placed in machine rooms. some of them will be teachers machines in class rooms.
47 19:11:56 <h01ger> pere, thats why documenting it. but i dont think we must activily support such a use case (for us to be able to release. finally we should)
48 19:12:10 <h01ger> i'm happy to document and leave the bug open as p3
49 19:12:41 <h01ger> agreed thats good enough?
50 19:12:50 <h01ger> (for now/a first release)
51 19:12:52 <klausade> agree.
52 19:12:59 * pere is unsure
53 19:13:22 * itais is unsure too
54 19:13:23 <pere> any volunteer to look into the issue and try to debug the dbus rules?
55 19:13:43 <itais> I've tried without success , getting lost between so many layers
56 19:13:56 * h01ger takes this (klaus and him) as agreement still. the last meeting authorized me to set prios to enable us to release, so :-D
57 19:14:14 * jever agrees too
58 19:14:21 <pere> without any volunteer to look into the issue, reducing the severity seem like the only option.
59 19:14:35 <h01ger> #info documenting #1376 is enough to lower the severity of it to p3. then it shouldnt be closed but treated as p3 (and possibly fixed)
60 19:14:54 <h01ger> #topic 3.1 status lenny - #1383: usernames are caseinsensitive during login
61 19:15:31 <pere> need to be fixed, arthur said he was going to upload to lenny this weekend.
62 19:15:32 <h01ger> for this bug we have a patch, and SRM agreed to let it in lenny. if this doesnt happen til xmas, i propose an upload to lenny-test, based on the patch from the debian-bug
63 19:15:52 <h01ger> agreed + next?
64 19:15:57 <pere> h01ger: I would propose a upload to lenny test imediately, to test if the fix work.
65 19:16:04 <h01ger> (arthur is the debian maintainer of the affected package)
66 19:16:23 <h01ger> pere, fine by me, if you choose a version number which is defnitly lower as the one going to s-p-u soon
67 19:16:26 <pere> it might take a while after his upload before the package show up in lenny.
68 19:16:40 <h01ger> i would prefer to reupload his upload to lenny-test, thats all
69 19:16:55 <pere> yeah, me too.
70 19:16:58 * debalance agrees to to both ideas
71 19:17:13 <h01ger> #info 1383: for this bug we have a patch, and SRM agreed to let it in lenny. if this doesnt happen til xmas, i propose an upload to lenny-test, based on the patch from the debian-bug
72 19:17:44 <h01ger> #info maybe upload to lenny test imediately, to test if the fix work. prefer to reupload his upload to lenny-test
73 19:17:59 <h01ger> #topic 3.1 status lenny - #1398: DHCP server stops unexpectedly after less then 24 hours
74 19:18:14 <pere> vagrantc: awk isn't available in d-i, btw.
75 19:18:16 <h01ger> pere, did you find the issue to make "dynamic" not crash?
76 19:18:40 <pere> h01ger: I have not tried to fix it, only tried to understand it so far.
77 19:18:50 <h01ger> ah
78 19:18:58 <itais> I can promise to take a look trying to backport the fix from dhcp 4.1 to lenny, but: a) not sure it's possible, b) probably it won't be accepted in Lenny
79 19:19:18 <pere> three options: fix lenny, backport our version (if itais is right that it is fixed in unstable), or switch to static and rewrite lwat to restart dhcpd when ldap change)
80 19:19:21 <itais> so, changing dhcp-to-ldap connection to static is the best fix for lenny
81 19:19:24 <h01ger> itais, it should be accepted. that bug is important and important bugfixes (if non-.intrusive) are fine for lenny
82 19:19:30 <itais> pere: it's not fixed in unstable
83 19:19:34 <pere> itais: oh.
84 19:19:35 <itais> I have the patch to fix it in unstable
85 19:19:44 <itais> but haven't prepared its debianization yet
86 19:19:44 <pere> itais: submit to bts. :)
87 19:19:53 <h01ger> itais, yes, please submit to bts
88 19:19:54 <itais> that's on my vacation list
89 19:20:03 <itais> to Debian bts?
90 19:20:06 <pere> the problem only happen with little used dhcpd. :)
91 19:20:08 <itais> the link is already there
92 19:20:11 <pere> itais: yes.
93 19:20:20 <itais> little used dhcpd?
94 19:20:29 <h01ger> #info fix lenny, backport our version (if itais is right that it is fixed in unstable), or switch to static and rewrite lwat to restart dhcpd when ldap change)
95 19:20:34 <h01ger> who is working on this?
96 19:20:45 <pere> itais: yes. if the ldap connection is idle for a long time, the server disconnect and the next time dhcpd try to talk to ldap, it dies with SIGPIPE
97 19:21:03 <itais> I vote to switch to static , and not depending on the fix, and on the fix being accepted in lenny
98 19:21:06 <OleA_> I changed to static, after this the dhcp has not stopped. Before this dhcp stopet every night
99 19:21:12 <itais> pere: understood
100 19:21:27 <itais> how long does it need to be idle?
101 19:21:34 <pere> I agree that switching to static and reloading dhcpd when lwat changes LDAP is the short term fix. volunteers?
102 19:21:42 <pere> itais: not sure. over night is enough.
103 19:21:47 <h01ger> #info swithcing to static is safe and working. needs a mechanism to restart dhcpd though. (which can be done like the cronjob checking for samba(?) changes and restarting samba
104 19:21:51 <itais> because a cron could check it and restart the daemon if it's idle for more than, let's say 4 hours
105 19:21:51 <h01ger> was it samba?
106 19:21:53 <h01ger> sep, ^
107 19:21:58 <h01ger> sepski, ^
108 19:22:26 <pere> or perhaps a cron job to ask for IP addresses often, to make sure the ldap connection to not time out... :)
109 19:22:41 <h01ger> #info noone is activly looking into fix this atm :-( if you start doing so, please inform #1398
110 19:22:51 <h01ger> pere, ouch. /me closes eyes :-D
111 19:22:58 <h01ger> (could work though, but)
112 19:23:12 <h01ger> next topic?
113 19:23:15 <itais> looking at daemon.log to see how long is since the last dhcp activity is not hard
114 19:23:22 <debalance> we should decide on one way to go, so it's clear for the peson willing to fix it
115 19:23:29 <itais> and restart it if it's more than 4 hours
116 19:23:45 <pere> I would prefer keeping dynamic to make sure ldap changes are active imediately.
117 19:23:45 * h01ger proposes static and restart if less then 5min
118 19:24:02 <h01ger> cant we see that the config changed?
119 19:24:04 <itais> pere: anyway you have to restart powerdns after using lwat, to make dns changes active
120 19:24:13 <h01ger> itais, oh
121 19:24:26 <pere> itais: yeah, I would prefer powerdns to be dynamic too. :)
122 19:24:26 <itais> powerdns doensn't even have a "dynamic" option
123 19:24:37 <pere> itais: how is powerdns restarted when lwat change LDAP?
124 19:24:48 <itais> manually :)
125 19:25:03 <h01ger> #info if there is a cronjob (checking for changes and) restarting dhcpd, dnsd could also be restarted
126 19:25:14 <debalance> and should be
127 19:25:18 <OleA_> I had 2 laptops asking for IP ovet the night , the DHCP stopped anyway
128 19:25:18 <h01ger> #info restarting need of dnsd needs to be documented
129 19:26:07 <h01ger> #info holger volunteers to document the need to restart if pinged by the summary :)
130 19:26:09 <itais> well, I'm going to work on it after thursday, when schools close because of the christmas hollidays
131 19:26:36 <pere> ok, lets fix restarting of powerdns and dhcpd and switch to static for lenny.
132 19:26:36 <h01ger> #info itais will start looking at it in a week
133 19:26:44 <h01ger> #topic 3.1 status lenny - #1404: Gnash are filling up .xsession-errors
134 19:27:05 <pere> I've looked into this.
135 19:27:10 <h01ger> #info 1404 waits for SRM approval to let it into lenny, else we have a fixed package in lenny-test NEW
136 19:27:15 <h01ger> next?#
137 19:27:19 <pere> upgrading to the sid version would work too.
138 19:27:26 <h01ger> can of worms
139 19:27:30 <h01ger> security support etc
140 19:27:31 <pere> would solve more flash sites, but perhaps not worth it.
141 19:27:35 <pere> yeah.
142 19:27:52 <h01ger> #topic 3.1 status lenny - #1270: lwat-ticket #14: samba groupmaps are missing after installation
143 19:28:02 <h01ger> AFAIK stalled
144 19:28:07 <pere> if someone would take the resposibility to update gnash, I would be fine with it. without a volunteer for that. no can do.
145 19:28:22 <h01ger> update+maintain gnash
146 19:28:33 <pere> h01ger: exactly.
147 19:28:52 <h01ger> anybody anything to say about #1270?
148 19:29:15 <pere> I have not looked at it, and hope someone else with windows and samba experience take care of it.
149 19:29:33 <h01ger> danielsan, sep?
150 19:29:55 <h01ger> #1270 is stalled, nobody is looking into it, needs someone with windows and samba experience
151 19:30:00 <jever> I think lwat should care about and upstream should provide fix
152 19:30:21 <klausade> about #1270, samba works fine (for me) even with this bug. but, I'm no expert.
153 19:30:54 <h01ger> klausade, are you using self created groups?
154 19:31:32 <klausade> h01ger: just using stuff out--of-the box, works without me doing anythinhg.
155 19:31:33 <debalance> or any groups at all? as long as only $home is used, that bug shouldn't matter
156 19:31:37 <OleA_> are there workarounds for this problem?
157 19:32:00 <h01ger> so 1270 can possibly be downgraded to p3?
158 19:32:05 <jever> #1270 shows, that lwat does not handle all tasks wich should be handled by such a tool, IMO
159 19:32:24 <h01ger> jever, thats undoubted ;)
160 19:32:29 <jever> downgrade to P3 is ok
161 19:32:34 <klausade> debalance: $HOME and some shared-dirs in /skole/tjener/home0/shared is used.
162 19:32:44 * pere have no opinion how important samba stuff is.
163 19:32:55 * klausade can't see the "problem".
164 19:33:02 <debalance> for german schools it's quite important
165 19:33:07 <h01ger> klausade, debalance, could you maybe upgrade the bug with info from this discussion and downgrade it to p3?
166 19:33:18 <klausade> debalance: please add info about the "problem".
167 19:33:22 <OleA_> i guess it's importan for my school as well
168 19:33:23 <h01ger> debalance, we could fix it in a pointrelease always and afaik german schools use cipux anyway
169 19:33:27 <klausade> educate me
170 19:33:36 <debalance> klausade, h01ger: haven't encountered the problem yet
171 19:33:48 <h01ger> then i say downgrade to p3 is ok
172 19:34:13 * debalance agrees, since by default only $home is used
173 19:34:16 <pere> might have to upgrade after the next alpha release, if more feedback is provided.
174 19:34:25 <h01ger> #info agreed to downgrade to p3, if you disagree and can explain why #1270 should be p2 please explain in the bug
175 19:34:30 <klausade> so, one can't see the problem, and one haven't encountered the problem yet (the blind and the deaf ...:-)
176 19:34:57 <h01ger> downgraded
177 19:35:16 <h01ger> #topic 3.1 status lenny - #1370 sound should work on thin clients
178 19:35:26 <debalance> h01ger: don't mention the curel c*** word
179 19:36:06 <pere> I guess we agree what need to work.
180 19:36:07 <h01ger> #info thinclients use esd, not pulseaudio. so some apps dont work. we should switch to PA in the long term (or now, if needed), if sound in the browser works as it is (this needs testing!!!), downgrading to p3 is ok
181 19:36:14 <h01ger> debalance, *lalala*
182 19:36:19 <itais> no, thinclients don't use esd
183 19:36:38 <pere> I actually believe we have switched to pulseaudio, but the switch is incomplete.
184 19:36:44 <itais> esd is not set up in ltsp, there's still some legacy scripts that setup some envirnoment variables, but it's not used
185 19:36:49 <vagrantc> what?!
186 19:36:49 <h01ger> itais, http://bugs.skolelinux.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1370#c5
187 19:36:58 <h01ger> vagrantc, ^
188 19:37:07 <h01ger> and #c6 too
189 19:37:15 <itais> h01ger: I've read the bug, and I disagree with some of the things written there ;)
190 19:37:30 <itais> the problem is that some applications are not pulseaudio-ready in lenny
191 19:37:32 <h01ger> itais, please disagree in the bug
192 19:37:41 <debalance> actually, ltsp-build-client sets up everything needed if the thin-client has a compatible soundcard
193 19:37:59 <h01ger> debalance, please update the bug :-)
194 19:38:04 * h01ger is afk for 2min, brb
195 19:38:10 <itais> like audacity, rosegarden, etc. for those apps, there's a workaround, adding pulseaudio emulation in the launcher
196 19:38:19 <vagrantc> unless debian-edu is doing something unusual, pulseaudio is enabled by default. esd is only an undesired compatibility layer.
197 19:38:20 <itais> but any application supporting pulseaudio works perfectly
198 19:38:49 <pere> I tried to remove the kde config, but no sound worked in kde then.
199 19:39:15 <debalance> h01ger: it's already in the bug, comment 2 from itais
200 19:39:22 <pere> itais: why isn't /dev/dsp working for thin clients? I thought pulseaudio provided compatilibity layer.
201 19:39:24 * vagrantc suggests using the pulseaudio to alsa plugins
202 19:40:01 <itais> pere: don't know, I've never checked it, but launching the applications using "padsp audacity" they work when they're not pulseaudio-ready
203 19:40:22 <pere> If I understand this correctly, LTSP clients are already using pulseaudio, and we are just missing some config on the server to make sure more applications use pulseaudio or compat layers.
204 19:40:23 <h01ger> back
205 19:40:25 <itais> I think that's the way pulsaudio provides a fake /dev/dsp
206 19:40:56 <h01ger> who can update the bug / fix the problem?
207 19:40:57 <pere> itais: any way to do that without changing the desktop files for a lot of packages?
208 19:41:04 <itais> pere: we're just using some applications that are not ready to use pulseaudio, exactly like when we switched from oss to alsa
209 19:41:09 <vagrantc> check /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/README.Debian.sound
210 19:41:19 <h01ger> #info check /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/README.Debian.sound
211 19:41:22 <itais> but there shouldn't be a lot of packages, I only know audacity
212 19:41:36 <pere> itais: gtick did not work, and kde did not play any sound at all.
213 19:41:47 <itais> for the rest, it works. My memory might fail, but I recall rosegarden has an option in its menu to use pulseaudio
214 19:41:50 <pere> itais: did you try rosegarden?
215 19:42:13 <itais> for kde I don't know
216 19:42:26 <debalance> pere: I believe I had kde play sound, but I will check again 2morrow
217 19:42:51 <itais> in the worst case you'll need a launcher for jackd, audacity and jackd. Or switching back to esd
218 19:43:06 <itais> but that's not a good idea
219 19:43:28 <h01ger> next?
220 19:43:29 <pere> I believe kde, gcompris, gnash and mozilla-plugin in browser should work out of the box.
221 19:43:30 <itais> m
222 19:43:51 <itais> maybe there's some way to activate padsp permanently, I don't know
223 19:44:02 <pere> itais debalance: lets work together to find a solution out of the box in kde.
224 19:44:03 <itais> gcompris and gnash work for me
225 19:44:22 <pere> gcompris worked for me, I was unable to test gnash.
226 19:44:34 * h01ger suggest next topic and to discuss this later or in the bug
227 19:44:39 <pere> yeah.
228 19:44:47 <debalance> agree
229 19:44:53 <itais> ok, let's do it in the bug
230 19:45:00 <h01ger> #topic 4. RC1 for xmas? (alpha2 before..)?
231 19:45:11 <h01ger> i would propose to do alpha2 now
232 19:45:18 * pere want alpha2 released immedately.
233 19:45:39 <h01ger> #agree alpha2 should be released NOW
234 19:45:58 <h01ger> i can mv packages from lenny-test to lenny now/ish (or after the meeting)
235 19:46:00 <klausade> agree.
236 19:46:05 <h01ger> can probably stay the next 15min too :)
237 19:46:10 <pere> given the time of year, I suspect we will get limited testing before new years eve.
238 19:46:34 <h01ger> i would like rc1 on xmas, to then also mail d-d-a (as said in the october meeting...) to ask for more testers and translators
239 19:46:38 <pere> btw, why do we have differences in hal and consolekit between lenny and lenny-test?
240 19:46:55 <h01ger> iirc that was for #1270
241 19:46:56 <klausade> pere: for me, these days are the best for testing.
242 19:47:12 <pere> klausade: sure, but I believe we are the minority. :)
243 19:47:13 <OleA_> I'll do some testing the next days :)
244 19:47:24 <h01ger> pere, we dont have that diff (between our lenny and lenny-tzest)
245 19:47:31 <pere> we need to document how to change pxe setup to get diskless workstation by default.
246 19:47:40 <h01ger> pere, i think quite some people have (some) time then..
247 19:47:57 <h01ger> pere, thats on my list for the weekend (document pxe setup)
248 19:48:00 <pere> h01ger: oh. then I misread http://ftp.skolelinux.no/skolelinux/lenny_needs_love.html
249 19:48:10 <h01ger> pere, "Packages newer in debian-edu/lenny than in debian/lenny"
250 19:48:22 <h01ger> and "Packages newer in debian-edu/lenny-test than in debian/lenny"
251 19:48:35 * jever will test the next days too
252 19:48:46 <pere> h01ger: I suspect we should adjust pxeinstall to write the default menu in debian-edu/, and write a few more files to use for diskless workstations and thin clients.
253 19:49:08 <pere> then the documentation would be easier, telling people to just switch a symlink.
254 19:49:11 <h01ger> sep, danielsan: can you do a alpha2 "now"?
255 19:49:14 <h01ger> pere, right
256 19:49:36 <OleA_> yes we need need to document how to change pxe setup to get diskless workstation by default.
257 19:50:26 <h01ger> #agreed we will try to get rc1 ready ASAP.
258 19:50:32 <pere> anyway, that is for alpha3. :)
259 19:50:43 <h01ger> #info that probably requeires putting the known issues into the release notes
260 19:50:51 <h01ger> next topic?
261 19:51:45 * h01ger moved the packages from lenny-test to lenny now. please test the soon builded dvd+cd
262 19:52:00 <h01ger> #topic 5. any other business? (like website)
263 19:52:38 <pere> would be nice if www.skolelinux.org had the donate request more prominently. we need donations to keep the project going.
264 19:53:02 <h01ger> pere, add it to wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/www/ToDo
265 19:53:17 <h01ger> (and/or get a login and do it yourself :)
266 19:53:22 <OleA_> we'll add a donate button to the webpages
267 19:53:43 <pere> h01ger: not going to happen any time soon. will spend my time on the distro.
268 19:53:56 <h01ger> pere, sounds great to me :)
269 19:54:21 <h01ger> #topic 6. next meeting - next tuesday?!? :)
270 19:54:37 <h01ger> (same time?)
271 19:54:48 <debalance> fine for me
272 19:54:54 <h01ger> i would like two more meetings this year and get into a sprint :-)
273 19:55:00 * pere might be busy the next two weeks, do not know yet.
274 19:55:25 <pere> visiting my parents for christmas.
275 19:55:54 <vagrantc> by next, you mean which date?
276 19:55:59 <h01ger> will/would someone be here next tuesday? (or monday or wednesday?)
277 19:56:17 <h01ger> vagrantc, december 22nd
278 19:56:51 <vagrantc> tuesday's no good for me.
279 19:56:58 <vagrantc> but don't hold up a meeting on my account
280 19:57:25 <h01ger> we need participants other than only me :)
281 19:58:18 <h01ger> hmmm
282 19:58:20 <itais> I can on tuesday, we can be two ;)
283 19:59:11 <h01ger> itais, can you also on wednesday or monday, so that we get vagrant in? i'd prefer monday, wednesday wont probably work well for me
284 19:59:12 <vagrantc> monday 19:00 UTC probably works for me
285 19:59:56 <OleA_> I'll be around, but I guess I wount be that helpfull. (I can say OK or "please explain")
286 20:00:11 <vagrantc> though admittedly, most of the remaining issues are outside of what i'm likely to work on
287 20:00:19 <itais> I can't on mondays
288 20:00:21 <h01ger> vagrantc, #1370? ;)
289 20:00:40 * h01ger will set up a doodle poll then
290 20:00:43 * jever is like OleA_ with being around :)
291 20:00:50 <vagrantc> h01ger: i dread fighting with KDE's sound system
292 20:00:59 <h01ger> ok? (doodle and decide on sunday..)
293 20:01:25 <pere> why not.
294 20:01:37 <h01ger> #agreed next meeting date shall be decided by a doodle poll, holger will set it up, announce tomorrow and we'll decide on sunday. the meeting shall be either monday, tuesday or wednesday
295 20:01:45 <h01ger> thank you all for attending!
296 20:01:48 <h01ger> #endmeeting
