1 19:06:10 <k4x> #startmeeting
   2 19:06:41 * danielsan = Daniel Hess
   3 19:06:41 <h01ger> right. anybody can say #idea and #action is good to note who volunteered for what
   4 19:06:50 * h01ger = Holger Levsen
   5 19:07:05 * k4x = Kurt Gramlich
   6 19:07:13 * finnarne = Finn-Arne Johansen, BzzWare AS
   7 19:07:44 * pere = Petter Reinholdtsen
   8 19:08:13 <k4x> h01ger: could we have a summary with the meetbot?
   9 19:08:24 <sepski> greetings, sorry for beeing late.
  10 19:08:25 <h01ger> k4x, yes, but a human needs to finish it
  11 19:08:28 * sepski = Ronny Aasen
  12 19:08:36 * h01ger waves to sepski
  13 19:09:07 <k4x> ok, who will finish the summary?
  14 19:10:09 <k4x> ok, we will not spend more time on it, I will do the summary
  15 19:10:21 <sepski> k4x, thank you
  16 19:10:30 <danielsan> k4x: thanks
  17 19:10:31 <k4x> so lets start with teh first topic
  18 19:10:46 <k4x> #topic status lenny
  19 19:10:50 <h01ger> \o/ thanks k4x
  20 19:11:13 <h01ger> only 6 bugs left! \o/
  21 19:11:28 * danielsan did a netinst testinstall of mainserver+workstation+ltsp which was sucessful
  22 19:11:37 <h01ger> http://tinyurl.com/edulenny-releaseview
  23 19:11:40 <danielsan> but I did not yet test the thinclient part
  24 19:12:09 * finnarne wonders if the pdns-ldap stuff should have used strict method instead if tree-method.
  25 19:12:22 <danielsan> there is still a problem with the bootstrap of ldap for samba and samba in general
  26 19:12:23 <h01ger> finnarne, which would have what effect?
  27 19:12:55 <danielsan> it may also require a change in lwat (to add some more samba attributes for new users and hosts)
  28 19:13:16 <finnarne> h01ger: it would simplify the ldap objects.
  29 19:13:22 <danielsan> finnarne: we are using tree-method now?
  30 19:13:52 <danielsan> (tree as in how objects are placed in ldap?)
  31 19:13:53 <finnarne> dont know, haven't used lwat for that (it's jss work, and I've been to busy looking over stuff)
  32 19:14:56 <k4x> as I remember Jose said, we have tree-method, what tey also use in Spain
  33 19:15:13 <k4x> /tey/they
  34 19:15:24 * h01ger thinks if someone can commit to simplefy things, that would be great. changing stuff and leaving it half broken while we have it almost working now, doesnt sound so good to me ;)
  35 19:15:25 <sepski> simple mode is almost like a textfile in ldap entry by entry
  36 19:15:38 <finnarne> now we have dc=intern,ou=hosts,dc=skole,dc=skolelinux,dc=no and I guess 0.10.arp-addr,ou=hosts,dc=skole,dc=skolelinux,dc=no
  37 19:15:58 <sepski> tree mode means the dns query is made into ou's where a domain separator is a new branch on the tree
  38 19:16:07 <finnarne> with strict mode we can leave everything within ou=hosts,dc=skole,dc=skolelinux,dc=no
  39 19:16:19 <sepski> strict mode is like simple mode, but it autogenerates PTR records and you can't zone transfer those
  40 19:16:36 * pere would love to have one object for each computer in LDAP.
  41 19:17:02 <k4x> pere_away: what does this mean in that context?
  42 19:17:05 <danielsan> sepski: so it's better like we have it now?
  43 19:17:07 <finnarne> we would still need at least 2 I think, one for dhcp stuff, and maybe one for the rest
  44 19:17:08 <sepski> could you merge the dns the dhcp the nethost object into one ?
  45 19:17:31 <finnarne> sepski: no ^^
  46 19:17:34 <sepski> i used tree mode when i initialy concived the powerdns way. since i needed zone transfers
  47 19:17:48 <pere> k4x: not sure, but I just wanted it to be in the list of wanted features for LDAP. :)
  48 19:17:57 <sepski> finnarne, then i do not realy see what we gain. since i like the structured layout of the tree mode
  49 19:18:22 <sepski> if we can merge objects and reduce ldap complexity i would say it's a good thing (tm)
  50 19:18:23 <finnarne> sepski: I dislike the need for at least 4 objects for a host.
  51 19:18:39 <sepski> didn't you just say we could not merge them ?
  52 19:18:46 <finnarne> I would prefer 2 objects for each host , over 4
  53 19:19:12 <sepski> also with strict mode you get multiple ptr's for ip addresses (if you have multiple A's)
  54 19:19:43 <finnarne> sepski: not if you add cnamerecord properly
  55 19:20:51 <finnarne> but yes if you add tjener as, ns as, mail as , you get more
  56 19:20:52 <h01ger> finnarne, do you know if jss or you can work on #1270? (lwat ticket #14)?
  57 19:21:27 <finnarne> not in the next couple of weeks. We're converting schools to lenny these days
  58 19:21:41 <sepski> not all records can be cnames  examples are zone origin , postoffice and domain
  59 19:22:02 <k4x> who else is working on that? sepski?
  60 19:22:29 <pere> danielsan: can you write a test for the samba problem?
  61 19:23:01 <sepski> but again it's a do-o-cracy. i will not do this change, but i understand the motivation for doing it. it's pretty moot for me anyway since i require zone transfers
  62 19:23:06 <pere> btw, I tested the lenny install, and failed to find tjener as a host in LDAP using lwat.  that seemed strange to me.
  63 19:23:06 <h01ger> finnarne, heh. this bug blocks our release ;)
  64 19:23:21 * klausade = Klaus Ade johnstad
  65 19:23:27 <danielsan> pere: not sure, would require to query samba about the accounts
  66 19:23:30 <sepski> k4x, working on what ?
  67 19:23:39 * danielsan will have a look at it
  68 19:24:18 <danielsan> but first I would like to check if adding the attributes to the ldap objects fixes the problems
  69 19:24:21 <k4x> sepski: what kind of bug is it?
  70 19:24:50 <k4x> is it a missing feature in lwat?
  71 19:25:03 <sepski> k4x, you have lost me. what are you talking about ? i was discussion a implementation change of ldapified dns. no bug.
  72 19:25:20 <sepski> it would simplify the development needed for lwat, but it would not remove the need for the development
  73 19:25:40 <finnarne> h01ger: why cant the groups be defined in debian-edu ?
  74 19:25:41 <k4x> sepski: ok thanks
  75 19:25:45 <pere> sepski: I suspect k4x and danielsan are discussing some samba issue.
  76 19:26:10 <danielsan> at least /me does :)
  77 19:26:33 <k4x> let me try to summaries the topic
  78 19:26:34 <finnarne> h01ger: s/groups/groupmaps/ s/debian-edu/debian-edu-config
  79 19:26:36 <sepski> danielsan, k4x yeah i realy have not had time to look at the samba issue at all.
  80 19:27:05 * danielsan has a test setup now
  81 19:27:07 <k4x> so danielsan is working on the samba issue
  82 19:27:22 <sepski> finnarne, becouse schools make their own new groups? in addition to teacher and student ?
  83 19:27:25 <h01ger> finnarne, indeed
  84 19:27:34 <pere> the only problems with the installation detected by the self test when installing main-server+thin-client-server were missing DNS entries.
  85 19:27:42 <k4x> and teh decision for ldapifinging dns results in different lwat devolopments
  86 19:27:52 <h01ger> sepski, aint that another issue? ie that bug should be cloned :)
  87 19:28:45 <sepski> h01ger, i did belive the groups we provide out of the box allready had the correct samba groupmaps.....  but my memory may be failing me.
  88 19:29:03 <sepski> could be mixing it with changes i did in my FAI
  89 19:29:19 <h01ger> sepski, you filed that bug
  90 19:29:22 <danielsan> there are some samba maps
  91 19:29:23 <finnarne> sepski: so if a school creates a new group, you should add that as a samba group in addition ? whet would that give ?
  92 19:29:52 <sepski> finnarne, that windows machines would be aware of the groups as well.
  93 19:30:13 <pere> how would the windows machines use the groups?
  94 19:30:40 <finnarne> are you talking about the various predefined maps in microsoft, like administrators, print-admin, power-users, remote desktop users and so on ?
  95 19:30:51 <sepski> spesifically i have groups for schools and for year's
  96 19:31:16 <sepski> and in windows i use the groups for limiting what printers are autoinstalled on the windows machines depending on what group a user is in
  97 19:31:31 <sepski> eg a school vs another.
  98 19:31:34 <finnarne> so adding a samba groupmap with the same name as the group would solve things ?
  99 19:31:44 <sepski> or a teacher vs a student
 100 19:31:59 <finnarne> teacher vs student should be fixed in debian-edu-config
 101 19:32:52 <danielsan> adding groupmap information would be nice
 102 19:33:21 <sepski> this is something samba did in a different way in etch so it was working in etch
 103 19:33:44 <pere> we should avoid regressions if this was working in etch.
 104 19:34:00 <danielsan> there are groupmaps for admins, jradmins, teachers and students now (debian-edu-config/ldap-tools/samba-debian-edu-admin)
 105 19:34:29 <finnarne> are those working in lenny as well ?
 106 19:34:40 <sepski> danielsan, so i was not remembering to wrong
 107 19:35:10 <sepski> finnarne, yes the groups we provide out of the box are working. this is only for new groups made thru lwat / import
 108 19:35:17 * danielsan has to check, but will do when checking the other windows stuff
 109 19:35:33 <danielsan> sepski: ah, fine :)
 110 19:35:38 <sepski> and it works if you run the command i mentioned in the bug http://bugs.skolelinux.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1270
 111 19:35:49 <sepski> after making the groups
 112 19:36:04 <finnarne> is there a need to be abel to edit the samba groupmap name, or could it be the same as for unix groups ?
 113 19:36:21 <finnarne> s/abel/able
 114 19:37:42 <sepski> i have allways kept it identical for the user generated groups,  and does not see a need to change it. with the exception of the groups that have special meanings http://us3.samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/groupmapping.html#WKURIDS
 115 19:37:43 <danielsan> I think the same name as in unix would be sufficient, ..
 116 19:38:18 <finnarne> I'll look into it.
 117 19:38:59 <sepski> if we could make the RID identical to the guid it would be nice. but i do not know if that is feasible
 118 19:39:08 <sepski> finnarne, awesome
 119 19:39:13 <danielsan> finnarne: thanks
 120 19:41:04 * k4x we are still at topic status lenny, what else is release blocking?
 121 19:41:52 <danielsan> missing test releases?
 122 19:42:13 <danielsan> how about doing a test release to, maybe, get more users to test?
 123 19:42:32 <k4x> who is able to do this?
 124 19:43:02 <h01ger> ftpteam and drift
 125 19:43:10 <sepski> only d-e-c is differeing between lenny and lenny-test so it should be quite feasible
 126 19:43:15 <pere> anyone can do a test release.
 127 19:43:22 <sepski> d-e-d i mean
 128 19:43:34 <h01ger> pere, copying an iso away and labeling "beta1" or such
 129 19:43:53 <pere> any member of the www group can do that: gautehk,ronny,pere,olea,herman,lis,joeyh,holger,builder,akai,werner,ragnar,jever,finnarne
 130 19:44:06 * h01ger wonders if its really sensible now. we IMO have too many blocking bugs we know about
 131 19:44:34 <sepski> there may be other bugs we do not know about. and the announcement should mention the blocking bugs to avoid duplicates.
 132 19:44:35 <pere> announcing test releases with a summary of changes tend to attract test users.
 133 19:45:15 <k4x> pere: yes
 134 19:45:20 <sepski> imho wording the announcement is the main work
 135 19:45:31 <pere> yeah.
 136 19:45:43 <h01ger> yeah. if the announcemnet mentions the blocking bugs...
 137 19:45:57 <pere> if someone not in the www group want to make test releases, I am sure we can fix write access.
 138 19:47:42 <k4x> h01ger: I did not understand .. you mean there are to many bugs to do a test release?
 139 19:48:23 <pere> h01ger: did you fix the PXE stuff with DVDs?
 140 19:48:48 <h01ger> pere, no
 141 19:49:15 <h01ger> k4x, well, yes, thats what i said, but sep is right, if we mention them in the announcement, it should be fine
 142 19:50:25 <k4x> h01ger: ok, I will help, but it is to technical stuff for me, so I need help to understand and describe all bugs
 143 19:50:25 <pere> drafting the announcement on the wiki might make it easier to get help writing them.
 144 19:50:41 <k4x> pere: good idea
 145 19:51:15 <k4x> pere: could you please just init a wiki page now?
 146 19:51:32 <h01ger> k4x, if you ping me here or via mail, i'm happy to review+comment+probably write
 147 19:51:45 <k4x> h01ger: awesome
 148 19:51:49 * danielsan may also be able to contribute
 149 19:52:10 <k4x> danielsan: thanks so we take this in German hands ;-)9
 150 19:52:17 <pere> k4x: I am sure others are able, and will not try to take responsibility of making test releases this time.  my days are not long enough.
 151 19:52:41 * h01ger would like to move on / fisnish the meeting in an hour. and i also have a small any other business topic
 152 19:52:48 <k4x> pere: ok, I will catch all this help together ...
 153 19:52:59 <k4x> h01ger: thanks, you are right
 154 19:53:19 <k4x> #topic developer gathering october
 155 19:53:47 <h01ger> finnarne, stil around?
 156 19:53:58 <k4x> as I understand finnarne is waiting for an answer of FRISK?
 157 19:54:31 <finnarne> yes. we are
 158 19:54:33 <pere> k4x: if you want a draft announcement, <URL: https://init.linpro.no/pipermail/skolelinux.no/linuxiskolen/2007-May/017697.html > is an example.
 159 19:54:48 <k4x> pere: thnaks
 160 19:54:59 <k4x> /thnaks/thanks
 161 19:55:01 <finnarne> we've asked FRISK on how to proceed, but with no response
 162 19:55:12 <h01ger> finnarne, can you explain more? is there more? aint anyone from frisk here?
 163 19:55:16 <finnarne> after the initial "Wow - awsome"
 164 19:55:55 <finnarne> We told them that we would like to sponsor a gathering with minimum NOK 10k
 165 19:56:07 <h01ger> so whats the problem?
 166 19:56:08 <pere> I believe the FRISK board need help getting the member organization to work properly again.
 167 19:56:15 <k4x> can someone send an URL where the members of FRISK are readable?
 168 19:56:18 <finnarne> the maximum sponsoring from BzzWare would be NOK 20k
 169 19:56:29 <h01ger> finnarne, and "awesome!" from me too
 170 19:56:42 <finnarne> If we get som more funding from custommers, that will be added.
 171 19:57:10 <pere> finnarne: perhaps email isn't working?  did you try phone?
 172 19:57:15 <k4x> finnarne: thanks!
 173 19:57:20 <finnarne> there are a few cathes.
 174 19:57:29 <h01ger> finnarne, so what is the problem? 10-20k aint enough? you dont feel appreciated? you are lost how to go on?
 175 19:57:46 * k4x 3 minutes left
 176 19:57:46 <finnarne> we will not sponsor a gathering on the 3rd weekend in October
 177 19:57:49 <pere> #url http://www.friprogramvareiskolen.no/Styret/ - frisk board
 178 19:58:00 <k4x> pere: thanks
 179 19:58:30 <pere> I'm busy the second weekend (9-11).
 180 19:58:32 <finnarne> that's because I cant join you that weekend
 181 19:58:35 <sepski> i am a reserve in frisk. but did not realy feel authorative to answer your questions on mail
 182 19:58:40 <k4x> finnarne: so everybody could ask FRISK Members, I will do it with the only German ...
 183 19:59:15 <h01ger> so lets agree now on a meeting date?
 184 19:59:23 <pere> pere klausade and knuty are on the FRISK election board, and will soon have to look for candidates for the next general assembly.
 185 19:59:49 <finnarne> We also want to have a new general assembly that weekend.
 186 20:00:14 <k4x> pere: ok, could you inform debian-edu list, when elections are starting?
 187 20:00:15 <finnarne> (and I wont be electable, because of conflict of interests)
 188 20:00:58 <pere> k4x: the election will happen at the general assembly meeting.
 189 20:00:59 * k4x lets try to find a weekend in october
 190 20:01:13 <h01ger> so is this solved for now? (ie stuff will discussed/planned on th elist) so that we can move on? or find a date now?
 191 20:01:20 <pere> so, if both finnarne and me should show, the first and forth weekend would work.
 192 20:01:47 <k4x> than I could only join th 5.
 193 20:01:52 <finnarne> and the fifth (its' saturday 1. november I think
 194 20:02:03 <finnarne> sorry, sunday
 195 20:02:12 <k4x> no saturday is 31.10.
 196 20:02:25 <finnarne> I would prefer the 4th weekend
 197 20:03:08 <h01ger> so lets choose that one
 198 20:03:12 <sepski> the 4rth weekend is the only one i may have open at the moment in that month.
 199 20:03:13 * k4x I propose do init a wikipage for that
 200 20:03:18 <pere> what about proposing the first, forth and fifth weekend and doing a poll, picking the one with most people.
 201 20:03:25 * h01ger nods pere
 202 20:03:26 <pere> (it is what we normally do in cases like this. :)
 203 20:03:44 <sepski> and ususly it's 3-5 people answering it.... :/
 204 20:03:49 <finnarne> That was our plan, but since there was no response from the Board....
 205 20:03:58 <h01ger> finnarne, can you setup a poll on doodle.ch? takes 5min :)
 206 20:03:59 <pere> under http://www.friprogramvareiskolen.no/Gathering would be the place to gather it.
 207 20:04:16 <finnarne> Or at our website.
 208 20:04:20 <pere> finnarne: we should not let inactivity from the FRISK board block progress. :/
 209 20:04:43 <k4x> pere: ok, lets put or names there and the dates when we are able to join
 210 20:04:44 <pere> (and if someone want to revitalize the FRiSK member organization, please become members and run for office. :)
 211 20:04:56 <k4x> ;-)
 212 20:05:01 * h01ger is looking for ways to do less
 213 20:05:15 <pere> finnarne: how would the amount of sponsoring be determined?
 214 20:05:24 * k4x I tend to end or meeting now
 215 20:05:35 * h01ger has a final question
 216 20:05:35 <finnarne> It was explained in the mail :)
 217 20:05:54 <danielsan> k4x: talk about next irc meeting?
 218 20:05:59 <k4x> h01ger: please
 219 20:06:04 <k4x> danielsan: right
 220 20:06:08 <pere> finnarne: right.  it should be predictable for everyone, to avoid discussions after the event.
 221 20:06:11 <finnarne> we don't want to pay to much tax on theese money
 222 20:06:14 <h01ger> AndrewLee wants me to explain debian-edu at the free software conference in taiwan in september.. i would need funding to go there and want to ask frisk for it
 223 20:06:33 <h01ger> funding for accomodation+food can be covered by the conf..
 224 20:06:54 <pere> h01ger: that is like 1250 EURO?
 225 20:06:54 <h01ger> whom should i contact and how fast could this be decided?
 226 20:06:59 <h01ger> 1000e
 227 20:07:04 <k4x> h01ger: I support this
 228 20:07:06 <h01ger> at least it was 900e yesterday
 229 20:07:07 <pere> h01ger: the FRISK board and akai.
 230 20:07:18 <pere> akai is the leader of FRISK.
 231 20:07:27 <h01ger> so i'll mail them and put "URGENT" in the subject ;)
 232 20:07:37 <k4x> h01ger: do it!
 233 20:07:45 <pere> h01ger: mail is good, but apparently not sufficient. :)
 234 20:07:50 <h01ger> hmm
 235 20:07:57 * k4x now: next meeting
 236 20:07:57 <h01ger> i have akais mobile.. but ;)
 237 20:08:03 <h01ger> k4x, use #topic
 238 20:08:10 <finnarne> maybe it's easier to get money out, than to get money in ?
 239 20:08:11 <k4x> #topic next meeting
 240 20:08:17 <h01ger> but the board decides, not akai, or?
 241 20:08:32 <h01ger> +thanks for your support!
 242 20:08:35 <pere> h01ger: sure, but akai is supposed to drive the process. :)
 243 20:08:42 <h01ger> right :)
 244 20:09:10 <h01ger> next meeting in a year?
 245 20:09:15 <h01ger> a
 246 20:09:17 <h01ger> month :)
 247 20:09:18 <pere> :)
 248 20:09:21 <k4x> ;-)
 249 20:09:36 <pere> works for me.
 250 20:09:37 <h01ger> multitasking is fun sometimes :)
 251 20:09:40 <finnarne> there was a suggestion on october  15th
 252 20:09:50 <sepski> finnarne, ill answer the mail you wrote just to try to get something out of the senior members
 253 20:10:05 * h01ger thinks we should have an irc meeting rather sooner, maybe even sooner than in a month
 254 20:10:07 <finnarne> sepski: fine
 255 20:10:08 <pere> would like to avoid tuesdays.
 256 20:10:36 <pere> 2. of oktober?
 257 20:10:37 <finnarne> if you want me inn, I guess mondays is the best, or sundays
 258 20:10:40 <h01ger> wednesday, septrember 16th?
 259 20:10:45 <h01ger> monday, sep 14th?
 260 20:10:58 <finnarne> but I wont promise I'll be there :)
 261 20:10:59 <pere> monday 14th might work for me.
 262 20:11:13 * h01ger is fine with the 14th too
 263 20:11:47 <k4x> so we fix 14.9. same time
 264 20:11:51 <h01ger> \o/
 265 20:11:54 * h01ger thanbks
 266 20:11:59 <danielsan> \o/
 267 20:12:02 <pere> ack.
 268 20:12:11 * h01ger thanks everyone for attending and esp. k4x for chairing and summarizing!
 269 20:12:19 <pere> thanks.
 270 20:12:24 <danielsan> thanks k4x, thanks all!
 271 20:12:40 <k4x> #info next meeting september monday 14.
 272 20:13:02 <k4x> #endmeeting