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<Blankoworld> Hi andreas 
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<andreas> Hi Blankoworld
<Blankoworld> The meeting starts at 09:00 PM, isn't it ?
<andreas> Yep, 2008-03-31 19:00 UTC (according to http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting)
<andreas> Strange thing to change from CET to CEST
<Blankoworld> Hum, I come from France, so GMT +1, so 19:00 UTC means 20:00 here I think.
<Blankoworld> And it's 20:36 :s
<Blankoworld> I have forgotten something ?
<andreas> Didn't you switched to CEST last weekend?
<andreas> At least in Germany we did and this meand GMT+2
<Blankoworld> andreas, yes, I switch.
<andreas> Perhaps we should a the time which is valid in Central Europe next time
<andreas> I guess most participiants come from this time zone.
<Blankoworld> So @ 21:00 here ?
* Blankoworld have some problems to speak english. Argh !
<andreas> I have some problem to speak French. Argh! ;-)))
<andreas> I guess we both have problems to speak Norge. ;-))
<andreas> Yep 21:00 here is correct
<Blankoworld> ok, so I wait to 21:00 :)
<Blankoworld> French is very difficult I think.
<andreas> It becomes much easier when having some good French wine.
<Blankoworld> In France few people can said : I speak French and I know how to write it.
<andreas> Well, not for others to understand - but for me to speak. ;-)
<Blankoworld> In Germany, it's so easy to write !
<andreas> ACK
<Blankoworld> Lol, yes, French wine is excellent.
<Blankoworld> In Elsass (near Germany and Kehl), we have 7 different wine.
<andreas> I know where Elsass is situated. ;-)  http://fam-tille.de/frankreich/strasbourg/index_de.html
<sepski> pere, you got mail 
<pere> thanks
<sepski> realy sorry, but i can't stay for the meeting :/
<sepski> ill read the backlog tomorrow
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<andreas> Pere, will you be able to stay longer to discuss the tasks file issues in case we will not have enough time in the meeting?
<andreas> I had hoped to meet you in RL in Extremadura
<pere> andreas: a bit, but not much.
<andreas> OK, so in case we will not finish it please provide some information via Mail
<pere> andreas:  ENOTIME.  <URL: http://www.digi.no/php/art.php?id=517414 > :)
<andreas> So you leave MS a chance to steal your time???
<pere> priorities, priorities. :)
<andreas> In case I get no answer, do you think it is OK to just ignore "Ignore" and "Avoids"?
<andreas> BTW, I would like to replace things like
<andreas> Ignore:      koha
<andreas> Why:         Library database system, might be useful for schools.  Koha
<andreas>              is part of the Suse Edu distro, so I add it here to track it
<andreas>              in Debian Edu.  See <URL:http://bugs.debian.org/389876> for the WNPP.
<andreas> Responsible: Petter Reinholdtsen
<andreas> NeedConfig:  no
<andreas> By Depends: koha
<andreas> Pkg-Description: ...
<andreas> To make it listed as prospective package
<pere> ignore are just used as padding and to get a package on our radar, and avoid is used when building CDs.
<andreas> ... provided that it should be included automatically in main-server once it is available
<andreas> So the "Depends: Package" is exactly right here, IMHO
<pere> nope.  that ignore entry is just to put something on our radar.  we do not want it included before it is reviewed.
<pere> with the ignore, it would be put on the Cd if there was extra space for it, and show up on the list of packages we care about.
<andreas> OK, What about using "Ignore" as just another way to claim prospective packages?
<andreas> Add the WNPP and Homepage as real tags
<pere> who is the meeting moderator?  I believe we should have started a few minutes ago.
<andreas> Yupp, wait with this topic until later ...
<pere> andreas: that would make sense, yes. :)
<andreas> Apropos Moderator: Wasn't h01ger claiming to have dinner?
<pere> yes, with vagrantc.
<pere> he sent his regrets a few hours ago.
<andreas> So anybody else should take over
<pere> yes
<andreas> So if nobody takes over we could continue discussing, right?
<andreas> What do you mean with "show up on the list of packages we care about" ?
<pere> any volunteers to moderate the meeting?
<andreas> Where is this list?
<andreas> Pere, I'd regard you as the perfect moderator.
<andreas> Just start asking who will volunteer to write the summary. :)
<pere> I'm sorry, but my head is full of OOXML and other stuff, and I am just not fit to moderate.
<andreas> In Germany this is Easy: MS had bought enouth people in DIN and they decided pro.
<Blankoworld> MS = M$ ?
<andreas> So this left us much time to care for other things. :-((((
<andreas> Blankoworld, yep, whatever you like to pronounce this.
<pere> andi: it will show up in for example missingpkglist-lenny-test-dvd.txt.
<andreas> OK, so these lists are not only created written to consoel in cdd-gen-control but stored anywhere.
<andreas> I think I understood the principle.
<andreas> Perhaps I concentrate for the translated web pages first, now I have at least a reasonable advise for Ignore
<andreas> and continue with cdd-dev 0.6 afterwards.
<pere> the ordering when asking for packages.txt is depends, recommends, suggests, ignores, and thus the ignored packages will make it to the CD or DVD, if there is room for the m.
<pere> the packages.txt file is used when building CDs and DVD. :)
<andreas> OK, some kind of "soft-suggests". :-)
<pere> as only depends and recommends make it to the tasksel tasks, neither suggests nor ignores are installed by default.
<pere> exactly.
<andreas> But if I remember right the Ignores are also not in debian/control as Suggests, right?
<andreas> I have to check this.
<pere> suggests show up in the meta packages, while ignores do not.
<andreas> OK
<pere> that is correct, and exactly how they were intended.
<pere> it is kind of a "keep an eye on these packages and perhaps use them in the future" kind of statement.
<andreas> But the koha example shows that this also might be "non-existing" packages, right?
<pere> absolutely.
<pere> so assosiating WNPP request # and homepage URL make sense.
<andreas> OK
<andreas> So lets clarify 'Avoids':  This are existing packages that will be listed in the meta packages but, should not go to the CD/DVD, right
<andreas> Perhaps because non-free or whatever reason.
<pere> yes.  they end up in the exclude file used during CD build.
<andreas> OK
<andreas> What abouot 'Leaf'?
<pere> do not ring a bell.
<pere> are we really dropping the meeting?
<andreas> $ grep Leaf *
<andreas> common:Leaf: false
<andreas> desktop-gnome:Leaf: false
<andreas> desktop-kde:Leaf: false
<pere> ah, I believe that was added by joeyh.
<andreas> OK, I'll write a mail.
<andreas> What means: 'NeedConfig'
<pere> I believe it control if the task show up in tasksel as its own task, or is hidden and only used as a group to include in tasks that are visible
<andreas> Ah, I have to read about this tasksel stuff more anyway.  Perhaps it becomes obvious.
<pere> needconfig is not parsed automatically.  it was intended as a way to track if we had remembered to configure all that needed configuration, but it is only free text.
<andreas> So just another comment, right?
<pere> yes
<andreas> I guess 'Note' is the same - just another comment as 'Why'.
<pere> could be.  does not ring a bell either.
<andreas> $ grep Note *
<andreas> desktop-other:Note: Some packages might be listed several times.  If you are
<andreas> desktop-other:Note: This is the list of packages to be installed on standalone machines
<andreas> desktop-other:      Note, some packages can be listed several times.  If you want to
<andreas> desktop-other:Note: 
<andreas> desktop-other:Note: ENKELTE FAG
<andreas> desktop-other:Note: VIDEREG´┐ŻNDE
<andreas> desktop-other:Note: ANDRE
<andreas> desktop-other:Note: SYSTEM
<andreas> networked:Note:
<andreas> thin-client-server:Note: This is the list of packages to be installed on a thin client server.
<andreas> workstation:Note: Some packages might be listed several times.  If you are
<pere> no idea.  look like something that used to have # in front of it.
<andreas> Uhm '#' is Deprecated.
<andreas> RFC822 does not know a comment sign
<andreas> At least if I'm not completely missleaded
<pere> ok.  I guess it was introduced after me. :)
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<andreas> Perhaps we should consequently Prefix all comments with 'X-'
<andreas> So 'X-Why', 'X-Note' and 'X-NeedConfig' would make clear this fact.
<andreas> After you?
* pere have no opinion on that. :)
<andreas> Am I talking with you post-mortem?
<andreas> To the 'Section' tag:
<pere> I have not looked at that code for a year or two, I believe.. :) 
<andreas> $ grep -A2 -B2 Section *
<andreas> desktop-gnome-Task: Gnome
<andreas> desktop-gnome:Section: gnome
<andreas> desktop-gnome-Leaf: false
<andreas> desktop-gnome-Architecture: any
<andreas> --
<andreas> desktop-kde-Task: KDE
<andreas> desktop-kde:Section: kde
<andreas> desktop-kde-Leaf: false
<andreas> desktop-kde-Architecture: any
<andreas> Smells very much like a tasksel thingy as well as Leaf, right?
<pere> could be.  no idea.
<andreas> I think I'll work on the known things and see what I need for tasksel.  If something remains unclear I will bother JoeyH
<andreas> In the last point I wrote:
<andreas> 'Architecture': meaning is clear, but do we really need this -
<andreas>                       I guess having the same architecture (either 'all'
<andreas>                       or 'any' should be OK, right)
<andreas> So IMHO we should remove all Architecture entries in the tasks files.
<pere> that did not exist when I wrote the code, so no clue.
<pere> all the meta packages was arch: any when I left it. :)
<andreas> So whoever it included should speak up now or keep silent for ever. ;-)
<andreas> Yep, either arch 'any' or just the arch we are building on.
<andreas> So the Arch tag is redundant
<pere> joeyh might remember. :)
<pere> use the source, luke. :)
<andreas> Pah, I think the " speak up now or keep silent for ever" approach is better
<andreas> especially if JoeyH is not listening! ;-)))
<andreas> BTW, funny meeting today
<andreas> I now solved all issues interesting for me
<andreas> :)
<andreas> Is there anybody out there except the non-existant moderator and the non-existant summary writer?
<jever> yes ;-)
<andreas> Prost
<jever> skol
<Blankoworld> :)
<andreas> Well, honestly this is one reason why I do show up so seldom in IRC: Looking at the list of people who joined and comparing who is really there this seems like a bad ratio.
<Blankoworld> indeed, but private life could take a big part of the life. So virtual life ...
<andreas> :)
<andreas> Pere, one last question for the tasks files: Nobody asked my request to translate Norwegian comments inside
<Blankoworld> For an example : it is 21:42 and I have to spend time into video watching, in order to forgive this day
<andreas> Am I correct that this is a sign that they are not important enough for translation?
<pere> oh.  I've translated the ones I found, but they are probably not very important to translate.  the comments are not used for anything, just to help those editing the tasks.
<andreas> If they are not important enough for translation I'd regard them as not important enough to stay in the tasks files and will remove them
<andreas> Ahh, nice if you did so
<andreas> Well, I assumed that they are not very important anyway
<andreas> The similarities between Norwegian and German did not ring a bell that there is some really important information ...
<andreas> Blankoworld: Did you noticed that the time you wrote was (42/2):42?
<andreas> Are you watching "Hitchhikers Guide?"
<Blankoworld> andreas, what ?
<Blankoworld> how much ?
<Blankoworld> 42 what ?
<andreas> No, "What" is not the question - it does not work perfectly with the answer. :)
<Blankoworld> andreas, I watch Stargate Atlantis.
<Blankoworld> ah ok lol
<Blankoworld> yes
<Blankoworld> H2G2
<Blankoworld> is that correct ?
<Blankoworld> And the perfect number, for all respect geek : 42 :)
<andreas> Does not ring a bell
<andreas> If it is Stargate related - I have never seen this ...
<Blankoworld> I have some brain trouble lol
<andreas> You might get even more if I tell you that Douglas Adams guessed wrong: The answer is 17!
<andreas> http://www.vinc17.org/yp17/index.en.html
<andreas> (There is also a French translation)
<andreas> When I was at Physics department we did some statistics
<andreas> 17 happened very often out of pure random.
<andreas> Just ask anybody to tell you any number between 1 and 20.
<andreas> We observed that many people answered 17. :-)
<andreas> And, BTW, to get this log stored inside the NSA archive so we need no summary writer:
<andreas> Bin Laden is the 17th child of the family. ;-)
<andreas> Blankoworld, I now catch "H2G2" - never used this shortcut.  So I also took my time ...