21:01 < pere> #topic Who writes the summary?
21:01 < pere> #startmeeting
21:01 < meetbot> Meeting started at 20:01. The chair is pere.
21:01 < meetbot> Commands Available: #TOPIC, #IDEA, #ACTION, #AGREED, #LINK, #VOTE
21:01 < pere> #topic Who writes the summary?
21:01 < meetbot> New Topic: #topic Who writes the summary? 
21:02 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting in progress:  Who writes the summary? 
21:02 < pere> everyone present, please indicate so using /me = Full Name
21:02  * pere = Petter Reinholdtsen
21:02  * jever = Jürgen Leibner
21:02  * danielsan = Daniel Heß
21:03 < pere> so, any volunteer to write the summary.  help will be provided by meetbot.
21:03 < pere> #link http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
21:03 < meetbot> LINK received: #link http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot 
21:04 < pere> no-one?
21:04  * an3as = Andreas Tille
21:05 < pere> jever: do you have time to do it?
21:05  * jever isn't able to write it for tomorrow, maybe a little bit later
21:05 < pere> wednesday will be just fine.
21:06 < jever> then I will try with learning the meetbot
21:06 < pere> #agreed Jürgen Leibner write the summary
21:06 < meetbot> AGREED received: #agreed Jürgen Leibner write the summary 
21:06 < danielsan> jever: thank you
21:06 < pere> #topic Preparing 3.0r1 - remaining blocker bugs
21:06 < meetbot> New Topic: #topic Preparing 3.0r1 - remaining blocker bugs 
21:06 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting in progress:  Preparing 3.0r1 - remaining blocker bugs 
21:07 < pere> personally, I suspect there are no blocker bugs left, if all the fixes that are commed, work.
21:07 < pere> s/commed/comitted/
21:08 < pere> there are several P2 bugs open in bugzilla, but some of them are fixed and I am not sure we want to fix the rest.
21:08 < danielsan> what about #1234 stay with the fixe in d-e-c or use the one on d-e@l.d.o?
21:08 < danielsan> s/fixe/fix/
21:09 < pere> #link http://bugs.skolelinux.no/buglist.cgi?short_desc_type=notregexp&short_desc=.*%28document%7Cconfirm%29.*&product=Skolelinux&long_desc_type=allwordssubstr&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&priority=P1&priority=P2&priority=P3&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&changedin=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfiel
21:09 < meetbot> LINK received: #link http://bugs.skolelinux.no/buglist.cgi?short_desc_type=notregexp&short_desc=.*%28document%7Cconfirm%29.*&product=Skolelinux&long_desc_type=allwordssubstr&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&priority=P1&priority=P2&priority=P3&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&changedin=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=N
21:09 < pere> dvalue=&cmdtype=doit&newqueryname=&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop
21:10 < pere>  I'm unable to find a link to that patch in bugzilla?
21:11 < danielsan> it's not in the bugzilla, only on the ml currently (as it is not a patch, but the plain init-script currently)
21:11 < pere> danielsan: at this time, I am willing to go with the fix we have, even if it eats more memory, as the diskless workstations are expected to have more memory.
21:12 < pere> one issue, though, is upgrades.
21:12 < pere> danielsan: how do we handle upgrades of existing ltsp chroots?
21:12 < danielsan> corrently, i think we don't
21:13 < pere> any idea how we can make it handle upgrades?  documenting the fix is one way, thought not the best way. :)
21:13 < danielsan> the init-script maybe added by some action triggered by the postinst or something when an outdated chroot is found
21:14 < danielsan> but general updated are hard currently
21:14 < pere> or the init.d script can be included in some package, yeah.  what about a script to run to fix the chroot, and document that it should be executed to fix it?
21:15 < pere> any other bugs we should discuss here now?
21:15 < danielsan> hasn't sep fixed some exim thing for the changeroot too?
21:15 < pere> #action bug #1234 should be fixed for upgrades too, one way or another.
21:15 < meetbot> ACTION received: #action bug #1234 should be fixed for upgrades too, one way or another. 
21:16 < jever> is there a exim4 config now?
21:16 < pere> danielsan: not that I noticed.  he fixed some client config (a broken symlink).
21:16 < jever> ah, ok
21:16 < h01ger> hi
21:16 < h01ger> sorry for being late - but the talk was interesting, the/a hamburg linuxuser group wants to push linux is schools and i told them about debian-edu and had a discussion... i tried to run away to be here in time, but... :)
21:17  * h01ger = Holger Levsen
21:17 < pere> welcome.
21:17  * h01ger catches up on backlog
21:17 < pere> so, any other blocking bugs we should discuss now?
21:17 < danielsan> ok, we should see by looking into the svn
21:18 < pere> there is a bunch of packages that differ between etch-test and etch.  we should work on getting etch updated, and wrap up the release.  these are the packages with changes at the moment:
21:18 < pere> debian-edu debian-edu-config debian-edu-doc debian-edu-install hal live-helper live-initramfs ltsp sitesummary xdebconfigurator 915resolution debian-edu-archive-keyring
21:18 < danielsan> maybe we could implement some basic update thingy to make-ltsp-clients script
21:18 < pere> danielsan: could work, yes.
21:19 < pere> several of these packages already have a request for update pending.  I hope the ftpmasters can push them soon, to reduce the list of remaining packages to push.
21:19  * danielsan will write a request for hal once it is build on amd64 too
21:19 < pere> The list is from
21:19 < pere> #link http://ftp.skolelinux.no/skolelinux/needs_love.htm
21:19 < meetbot> LINK received: #link http://ftp.skolelinux.no/skolelinux/needs_love.htm 
21:20 < pere> #link http://ftp.skolelinux.no/skolelinux/needs_love.html
21:20 < meetbot> LINK received: #link http://ftp.skolelinux.no/skolelinux/needs_love.html 
21:20 < h01ger> done with backlog
21:20  * h01ger looks at status page
21:20 < danielsan> maybe i should build it on amd64 and not i386 :)
21:21 < pere> I believe we have enough fixes to proudly release 3.0r1, and urge everyone to help wrapping up the release.
21:21 < danielsan> should had
21:21 < h01ger> \o/ 1271 is fixed - havent read anything edu related over the weekend... ;)
21:22 < pere> anything else to say on the release?  I hope to spend some time on it on wednesday.
21:22  * danielsan will have more time after friday, could work on it on the weekend
21:22  * h01ger would like to fix some bugs in d-e-doc but that shouldnt block a release. 
21:22 < h01ger> did anybody work on PR yet?
21:22 < pere> h01ger: not that I am aware of.  our writers are writing on money applications at the moments.
21:23 < pere> #topic Preparing 3.0r1 - press releases
21:23 < meetbot> New Topic: #topic Preparing 3.0r1 - press releases 
21:23 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting in progress:  Preparing 3.0r1 - rpress releases
21:23 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting in progress:  Preparing 3.0r1 - press releases
21:23 < pere> is there a wiki page for the press release?
21:24 < pere> if not, we should start on one.
21:24 < h01ger> yes, we should and need to
21:24 < h01ger> it doesnt make sense to push r1 out, if the PR is not ready. 
21:24 < h01ger> (that gives me more time to fix things in d-e-doc ;)
21:24 < pere> absolutely.
21:25 < pere> any volunteer to locate and announce the wiki page for the draft press release?
21:25 < pere> (locate is search and find or create)
21:25 < h01ger> it should be close to the previous ones ;)
21:25 < pere> yes.
21:26 < jever> as I remember, there is a suggestion to use kbabel for translation of the doc package. Can one give a configuration for usage for this special case
21:26 < pere> #link http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/PressReleases
21:26 < meetbot> LINK received: #link http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/PressReleases 
21:26 < pere> jever: lets wait with that until the press release topic is complete.
21:26 < h01ger> jever, i just proposed kbabel because translators i trust told me its the best tool. what special config is needed??
21:27 < jever> ok
21:27 < pere> any volunteer to create a draft press release page?
21:27 < pere> an3as what about you?
21:28 < pere> for those joining us late, please indicate your presence using /me = Full Name
21:28 < pere> ok.  no volunteer for the press release page.  lets move on.
21:28 < pere> #topic Preparing 3.0r1 - call for translators
21:28 < meetbot> New Topic: #topic Preparing 3.0r1 - call for translators 
21:28 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting in progress:  Preparing 3.0r1 - call for translators
21:29 < pere> jever and h01ger, go ahead.
21:29  * h01ger is confused by http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/PressReleases : it has a english press release and press packages for 4 languages.
21:29 < h01ger> jever, what special config is needed?
21:29 < jever> kbabel can be confiugured for useage in a project as far as I understood it by trying it out. So if one can configure it for translation of doc package it would be nice, I think
21:30 < jever> so one is quickly able to getting involved
21:30 < h01ger> jever, isnt that for glossaries, to always have consistent translations? (to always translate word foo with bar and not sometimes with baz)
21:30 < jever> yes, but there seems to be more
21:30 < h01ger> jever, and in any case: if you managed to find/make one, please contribute it ;) /me thinks the norwegian translators are the most advanced in -edu - so maybe ask them?
21:31 < jever> I hoped, you have one already 
21:31 < an3as> pere: No, not really
21:31  * h01ger has hardly used kbabel. but on the way back from extremadura i talked with fdl, who confirmed me (again) that kbabel is the way^w^wa good way to go
21:31 < an3as> you see I'm to disturbed by other issues - even currently
21:32  * pere uses kbabel, but only for single .po file translations, nothing fancy in his config.
21:32 < pere> an3as: ok.
21:32  * h01ger was happy to see an3as managed to finally subscribed to that commit list. and thanks for pointing out the dead one...
21:32 < an3as> to much honor ;-))
21:32 < jever> ok, so one should delete the suggestion in the wiki?
21:33 < h01ger> jever, yes please. and the answer too :) 
21:33 < pere> jever: I know kbabel support showing related translations (as in the nynorsk or danish one when translating to bokmål), but rarely use it.
21:33 < jever> it is in NO wiki, I havn't write access AFAIK
21:33 < pere> h01ger: what is the call for translators about?
21:33  * h01ger never heard about the _need_ for a special config.
21:34 < h01ger> jever, doh. you mean you cant write to wiki.s.n?
21:34 < jever> h01ger: just a thought
21:34 < h01ger> pere, this fits quite well
21:34 < jever> h01ger: yes
21:35 < h01ger> jever, ARG. i thought it was anoymous editing just like wiki.d.o. so, get an account? :)
21:35 < pere> jever: access to the wiki require listing on a specific wiki page.
21:35  * jever hasn't found a registerpage until yes
21:35 < pere> looking for the page...
21:35  * h01ger notes we need to update the doc then
21:36 < jever> s/yes/yet/
21:36  * danielsan has not had problems back then (with the release manual)
21:36 < h01ger> jever, just dont put to many open questions in the manual. it should be a manual and not a wiki ;) (even though it _is_ written in the manual). maybe its better to put this under wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/HowTo/KBabel 
21:36 < h01ger> jever, but you should get yourself write access to wiki.s.n in any case
21:37 < h01ger> s/even though it _is_ written in the manual/even though it _is_ written as a wiki/
21:38 < h01ger> jever, but write what you think. its a wiki and everything can be undone. i just try to keep some structure and style :-) (and putting too many questions in a manual can be confusing for people reading it, to learn something)
21:38 < pere> ah, I am looking for the wrong thing.  wiki.skolelinux.no is accessible for all.  www.friprogramvareiskolen.no is not.
21:39 < h01ger> :)
21:39 < jever> ??
21:39 < pere> jever: there is no access control on wiki.skolelinux.no.
21:40 < h01ger> jever, more domains to confuse us all :)
21:40 < pere> there should be, because of all the spam, but that is another story.
21:40 < h01ger> pere, there is
21:40 < h01ger> i just tried
21:40 < h01ger> with another browser
21:40 < h01ger> the pages are immutable without logging in
21:40 < h01ger> (wiki.skolelinux.no)
21:40 < pere> h01ger: ah, sure.  yes, one need to log in.
21:40 < pere> but one register on the web and get imediate access.
21:41  * h01ger already took a note to describe this in the manual
21:41 < jever> pere: where can I register?
21:41 < h01ger> pere, yes. but this should be documented in the manual
21:41 < h01ger> jever, http://wiki.skolelinux.no/UserPreferences
21:41 < pere> #topic Preparing 3.0r1
21:41 < meetbot> New Topic: #topic Preparing 3.0r1 
21:41 < h01ger> again?
21:41 < pere> so, anything elase to cover related to 3.0r1?
21:41 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting in progress:  Preparing 3.0r1
21:42 < pere> if not, we move on...
21:42 < pere> #topic lenny roadmap
21:42 < meetbot> New Topic: #topic lenny roadmap 
21:42 < jever> aaah, http://wiki.skolelinux.no/UserPreferences that's I searched for :-)
21:42 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting in progress: lenny roadmap
21:43 < pere> anyone?
21:43 < h01ger> not related to the roadmap to lenny, but from lenny: it occured to me, that even if we release our lenny the same day as lenny from within lenny... we then can still release our lenny r1 with enhanced packages later :)
21:43 < pere> sure.
21:44 < h01ger> the only thing on the agenda about lenny is cd building, which sep did, and he is not here
21:44  * h01ger waves to sep reading backlog :)
21:44  * h01ger hasnt had time to work on the lenny roadmap, my next step (besides maintaining that wiki page) will be mailing all those blocker bugs for #311188. but after 3.0r1
21:44 < pere> we could discuss generic lenny stuff too.
21:45  * h01ger noted the debian lenny roadmap mostly contained "behind the scenes" stuff, but hardly desktop candy
21:45 < pere> I urge everyone to have a look at
21:45 < jever> h01ger: can you give the link to a status wikipage about lenny?
21:45 < pere> #link http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/roadmap
21:45 < meetbot> LINK received: #link http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/roadmap 
21:45 < h01ger> and i want bulletproof-X for lenny :)
21:45 < h01ger> jever, what pere just gave
21:46 < jever> I noticed ;-)
21:46 < pere> the main task for lenny will be merging with the educational stuff from extremadura / linex.
21:46 < pere> their experience with teacher feedback and scaling should make a major difference.
21:46  * h01ger nods pere 
21:47 < pere> I urge everyone to help them to get all their packages into debian/main and make them translatable to norwegian, german, french and english.
21:47 < pere> I plan to start working on the lenny release as soon as 3.0r1 is out.
21:47 < jever> are there ideas about implementing something like a groupware such as egroupware?
21:48 < pere> jever: not before you mention it. :)
21:48  * h01ger googles egroupware
21:48 < pere> jever: what feature are you interested in?  
21:48 < pere> schooltool (or schoolbell to be exact), provide a calendar, I believe.
21:49  * h01ger thinks schooltool is dead or sleeping very well
21:49 < pere> #link http://www.schooltool.org/products/schoolbell
21:49 < meetbot> LINK received: #link http://www.schooltool.org/products/schoolbell 
21:49 < jever> it maybe a better to do all groupware things with such an aplikation as with much single tools spreaded around
21:49  * pere hope everyone know that everyone is allowed to use #link.
21:50 < an3as> If there is an *urgent* need for sponsoring linex stuff I would try to support this effort
21:50  * h01ger nods jever, but there are other tools for this as well. so while i think its good to preconfigure one, we should also provide ways to integrate other tools.
21:50 < pere> jever: what do you want from a groupware tool?  the ones I know have a lot of stuff.  which one of the features are you interested in?
21:51 < h01ger> an3as, /me thinks helping linex is quite very helpful and kind of "urgent". they will manage without us, but for us the result will be better, the more we support them. that way they'll need less hacks and we all can profit more
21:51 < pere> #link http://www.egroupware.org/
21:51 < meetbot> LINK received: #link http://www.egroupware.org/ 
21:51 < jever> mailing calendaring cms project, so all the thing one may need to put teams together
21:51 < h01ger> jever, doesnt moodle also have (some of) these features?
21:52 < h01ger> and/or kdepim/evolution. thats the challenge..
21:52 < an3as> exactly this was my idea: We need to attract them!
21:52 < jever> yes, but its not a choise if you *realy* want to groupware IMO
21:53 < jever> moodle don't turns me on ;-)
21:53  * pere just want a shared calendar and resource scheduling.  
21:53 < an3as> And don't thing I have no  ulterior motives: I'm thinking about doctors in Extremadura will follow ;-))
21:53 < h01ger> jever, 1.4mio installations turns me on :)
21:53 < pere> #link http://moodle.org/
21:53 < meetbot> LINK received: #link http://moodle.org/ 
21:53 < h01ger> an3as, ah. it all makes sense now :)
21:54 < jever> eat more shit, because millions of flies does? ;-)
21:54 < h01ger> nah
21:54 < pere> so, we all have great plans for lenny.  this is good.  but I suspect we better move on.
21:54 < jever> ack
21:54 < pere> #topic lenny roadmap  - status of lenny CD building?
21:54 < meetbot> New Topic: #topic lenny roadmap  - status of lenny CD building? 
21:55 < h01ger> jever, in general i like your idea. i just think the devil is in the implementation detail. preselecting one solution _and_ allowing other schools to use different solutions..
21:55 < pere> as far as I know, the state is that sep (Ronny) started working on this, discovered the need for two different versions of debian-cd to build it, started on the work to handle two build trees, and never had time to complete it.
21:55 < jever> h01ger: yes, that's the question
21:55 < h01ger> pere, thats what i remember too
21:55 < pere> those willing to work on it will be given pointers and required access to the build host.
21:56 < pere> we really need to get the CD building working soon, to be able to detect bugs in the lenny configuration.
21:56 < pere> and to get some focus on reducing the number of config file editing we do using cfengine. :)
21:56 < pere> next topic?
21:56 < h01ger> jever, so if you want to start to develop a plan how to achieve that.... great! (and i would think we should have such a plan first (doesnt have to be _the_ _long_ and _detailed_ masterplan, but a plan), before we should agree to put that on the roadmap. currently i'd say, "we have groupwares. apt-get install $your_poison" :)
21:57  * h01ger wonders if he is too ambitious here or if people agree
21:58 < jever> h01ger: while I will implement egroupware @home, I can figure out, how to preconfigure it for school usage, hopefully
21:58 < pere> I agree, but suspect we could include some more features in debian-edu, when people want to work on it.  I have nothing against moodle working out of the box, a shared calender, automatic scheduling (we already got it using tablix), etc.
21:58 < pere> #topic Next meeting?
21:58 < meetbot> New Topic: #topic Next meeting? 
21:59  * h01ger nods. we should definitly improve the out-of-the-box-ness :)
21:59 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting in progress: next meeting
21:59 < h01ger> in two weeks?
21:59 < pere> yeah.
21:59 < h01ger> or in one week, but with just one topic: getting 3.0r1 out. (and a regular one two weeks after r1 is out)
21:59  * h01ger prefers in two weeks. meetings to really get the work done :)
22:00 < h01ger> s/to/dont/
22:00 < danielsan> two weeks are cool
22:00  * pere do not believe in meetings to push work forward.  people with focus push work forward, while meeting will just waste time if the people lack focus.
22:00  * h01ger nods
22:00 < pere> november 26?
22:01 < danielsan> it does not look like meetings attract any random people
22:01 < pere> #agreed meeting in two weeks
22:01 < meetbot> AGREED received: #agreed meeting in two weeks 
22:01 < pere> same time?  I would like to have it a bit earlier
22:01 < jever> 1h earlier?
22:01  * h01ger thinks some people with kids want it later
22:01  * danielsan is fine with 26th and has no problems unless it is after 18 UTC
22:01 < h01ger> so 20.30?
22:01 < an3as> meeting is fine for me
22:02 < h01ger> or, lets make it 20 and people with kids can complain via mail :)
22:02 < pere> 19:00 UTC would be fine with me.
22:02 < h01ger> (/me spoke in MET) 
22:02 < danielsan> a/unless/if/
22:02 < an3as> Do you think all missing people are attracted by their kids?
22:02 < pere> anyone against 2007-11-26 19:00 UTC?
22:03 < h01ger> i think, in general finnarne and sep both stating something like this 
22:03 < h01ger> an3as, ^
22:03 < pere> well, sep went to bed already.
22:03 < h01ger> hehe
22:04 < pere> do we agree on 26. 19:00 UTC?
22:04  * h01ger suggest pere does "#agreed next meeting 2007-11-26 19:00 UTC"
22:04 < an3as> Well, my kid sometimes attracts my attention and I have to move to his room to ask him whether he could decrease the volume of his music, ...
22:04  * danielsan nods
22:04 < pere> #agreed next meeting 2007-11-26 19:00 UTC
22:04 < meetbot> AGREED received: #agreed next meeting 2007-11-26 19:00 UTC 
22:04 < an3as> but this is not differnten between 19:00 and 20:00
22:04 < pere> anything else before I close the meeting?
22:04 < h01ger> cheers!
22:04 < an3as> prost
22:04 < h01ger> nothing more from me :)
22:05 < pere> just to close it.  Keep up the good work, and we will get linux into every school!
22:05 < pere> #endmeeting