[21:01] --- sepski has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress | Agenda on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting | 1: State you presense with /me = Real Name 
[21:01] * pere = Petter Reinholdtsen
[21:01] * sepski = Ronny Aasen
[21:03] * Andreas = Andreas Tille (wearing "See you in HEL T-Shirt")
[21:03] <sepski> h01ger, ping, you are set as log collector, i assume you intended to be here ? :) 
[21:03] <pere> so, here we are.  The tree muskeeeers. :)
[21:03] <sepski> all for one !
[21:03] <Andreas> One for all
[21:03] <sepski> \o_
[21:05] <pere> sepski: so, as moderator, I suggest you announce the current topic.
[21:05] --- sepski has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress | Agenda on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting | Latecomers: State you presense with /me = Real Name  | We are now discussing: lwat 0.16 in etch r1 or 0.15-1.edu.etch.3 ?
[21:05] <Andreas> I've the impression that the first 10 mintues are either spend finding the summary writer or idling ...
[21:06] <sepski> Andreas, we had hoped to change that :)
[21:06] * pere got a new meeting coming up, and want this to complete quickly. :)
[21:06] <pere> so, who put the lwat item on the agenda?
[21:07] <sepski> h01ger, it seams
[21:07] <pere> my personal and quite uninformed opinion on lwat is that the version we included in r0 was quite rough, and that we could use any improvement it can get in r1.  On the other hand, we need to make sure it does not break anything that did work previously.
[21:07] <pere> at least we should do our best, and be ready to fix bugs quickly if regressions are reported.
[21:08] <pere> that make me conclude that 0.16-1 is probably a good choice, after we make sure it can actually create users. :)
[21:09] <pere> but as I said, it is an uninformed opinion, as I do not follow the lwat development very much.
[21:09] <sepski> so basic testing of the most recent package, and use that
[21:09] <sepski> i agree. 
[21:09] <Andreas> can't comment - just learned what lwat is at all
[21:09] <sepski> since finnarne released it i belive the developers think it's good 
[21:09] <pere> sepski: I guess so.  but mistakes happen, so a quick testing is good too.
[21:10] <sepski> dont know how many are testing etch-test regularly anylonger.
[21:10] * h01ger = Holger Levsen
[21:10] <pere> me neither.  I did not have time to test if for 1-2 weeks now.
[21:10] <sepski> h01ger, welcome :) 
[21:11] <h01ger> i'm always collecting logs - its just harder to publish them if i'm not here
[21:11] <h01ger> +sorry for being late
[21:11] <pere> I've poked a bit on the live CD, but that is about it.
[21:11] <Andreas> I'm recording the log as well
[21:11] <Andreas> H01ger - you tend to adopt Spanish time scale ;-)
[21:11] * vagrantc = Vagrant Cascadian
[21:11] <pere> h01ger: did you put this item om the agenda?
[21:11] <h01ger> yes
[21:12] <h01ger> pere, and i agree with what you said...
[21:12] <pere> h01ger: anything more to cover on this item?
[21:12] <h01ger> hmm. not really. now we know that we want it, so we can go that way
[21:12] <h01ger> we might want to investigate that new samba feature of lwat
[21:12] <sepski> anyone have anything against usintg the latest lwat say so on the mailinglist. 
[21:13] <pere> and document a bit better how to update netgroups in lwat.
[21:13] --- sepski has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress | Agenda on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting | Latecomers: State you presense with /me = Real Name  | We are now discussing: 3.0 r1 status?
[21:13] <h01ger> winnie wanted to keep it out and only make a bugfix release, but i _think_ we actually want that new feature. but this needs to be confirmed.
[21:13] <h01ger> s/we might want to investigate/we should investigate/
[21:14] <pere> well, as long as it does not break any old features, I do not see a problem with including it.
[21:14] <h01ger> but i'm not so familar with the samba setup in edu
[21:14] <h01ger> so far we setup samba with the installer and changed needed to be done with an texteditor?!
[21:14] * pere do not know.
[21:14] <sepski> h01ger, what changes ? 
[21:15] <h01ger> and btw, on the topic of logs and minutes: i'm investigating the bot ubuntu uses, to automate this. if that bot doesnt work, i'll modify eggbot myself. thats what they did as well :)
[21:15] <h01ger> sepski, i dont really know. but its in the lwat doc+changelog
[21:15] <h01ger> sepski, just have a look at lwat 0.16 ;)
[21:16] <pere> so, r1 status?
[21:16] * h01ger looks at the wiki page
[21:17] <h01ger> so lwat, d-e-doc, d-e-artwork and slbackup-php are candidates
[21:17] <sepski> seams etch-test just built so we are currently at the bleeding edge of debian-cd versions. hopefullt the cd/dvd is functional 
[21:17] <h01ger> there was more in that mail from pere from the beginning of august or so, but i'd say, lets update those 4 pacages and release r1
[21:18] <pere> yeah.
[21:18] <h01ger> were releasing means "build cds and publish/announce them". cause we can move packages to etch anytime. right?!
[21:18] <h01ger> where..
[21:19] <pere> I will not have time to spend on testing for the next 2 weeks, I suspect, but will try to help as best as I can.
[21:19] <pere> h01ger: yes, that is correct.  and all the PR work related to it.
[21:19] <sepski> means postponing some goals from ?  http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/roadmap, 
[21:19] <Andreas> H01ger: How we can move packages to etch?
[21:19] <sepski> Andreas, by asking ftpmasters, this is documented on the wiki. 
[21:20] <h01ger> Andreas, send a mail requesting it to debian-edu, explaining why..
[21:20] <sepski> Andreas, and he means skolelinux etch version , not debian-etch 
[21:20] <h01ger> right
[21:20] <Andreas> sorry ...
[21:20] <sepski> Andreas, dont be, :)
[21:20] <h01ger> pere, is there any PR which needs to be prepared? or just work needs to be done, once we release
[21:20] <pere> sepski: well, if no-one did the work, and is not working on concluding the work, I say we should not wait for it to be done.
[21:20] <h01ger> Andreas, fine fine. asking can only make you smarter :)
[21:20] <pere> h01ger: we should get a press release prepared.
[21:21] <pere> sepski: with the new debian-cd version, is it possible to enable the windows installer?
[21:21] * h01ger hasnt focused much at the roadmap page so far. but i'll change that now (and add PR there)
[21:22] <h01ger> pere, doesnt that need win32-loader which is only in lenny?
[21:22] <pere> h01ger: I do not know.
[21:22] <pere> h01ger: perhaps it can be provided in our etch repository too? :)
[21:22] <h01ger> i think so. /me asks on #-boot
[21:22] <sepski> pere, i do not know., but i dont think so yet. 
[21:22] <sepski> but i think we should stop wishing for features that postpone r1, 
[21:23] --> bip (~bip@host170-224-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #debian-edu
[21:23] <sepski> a installer for a different arch is major changes imho 
[21:23] <Andreas> I think the same
[21:23] <Andreas> Is there any urgent need for win32-loader
[21:23] <h01ger> yes, definitly
[21:23] <h01ger> no. it would be nice
[21:24] <pere> sepski: I agree.  if it is easy to enable (like flipping a flag), we can include it.  if not, just leave it.
[21:24] <h01ger> but imho updating (and translating) the docu is much more important
[21:24] <Andreas> Yessss
[21:24] <sepski> h01ger, i agreee on that 
[21:24] <h01ger> from the roadmap: ldap-access -   Find a way to check the SSL certificates when talking to the LDAP server, and fix lwat and samba to work with the new setup
[21:24] <h01ger> what the status on this?
[21:25] <pere> h01ger: I did not dare to change it for the stable release. :/
[21:25] <h01ger> pere, so? remove it from the roadmap?
[21:25] <pere> h01ger:  it need work to get upgrading to work, and I am not sure if the /etc/ldap/ssl/ directory should be accessable to all or not.
[21:25] <h01ger> for r1
[21:25] <pere> h01ger: yeah.
[21:26] <h01ger> task framework -  Change the task installation framework to handle language specific list of packages to install
[21:26] <h01ger> skip that for r1?
[21:26] <sepski> h01ger, unless you know someone that can do it right now, yes 
[21:26] <h01ger> network-manager -   Update the network-manager packages to use a backport from unstable to fix some console user access issues. (And only install it in standalone and not workstation+laptops installs) - skip that too for r1?
[21:27] <pere> h01ger: not sure.  I did restructure the task package to make it possible to move network manager to the standalone profile, but did not do the work.  not sure if it should be done or not.
[21:27] <pere> perhaps split it, and fix the task and delay the upgrade?
[21:28] <h01ger> delay which upgrade?
[21:28] <sepski> the backport
[21:28] <pere> should workstation+laptop profiles include network-manager or not?
[21:28] <h01ger> i think so, esp. laptops
[21:28] <sepski> the way laptops are used today i think so. 
[21:29] <pere> I guess the question is if laptops should be workstations or standalone profiles.
[21:29] <pere> mounting home directories as workstations do will not work very well with laptops.
[21:29] <h01ger> i'd tend to standalone... but it would be nice to give choice
[21:30] <pere> we had some schools installing laptops with workstation+laptop profiles and complaining when ldap and nfs did not work as expected.
[21:30] <sepski> laptops are just problems :)
[21:30] * Werner = Morten Werner Olsen
[21:30] <Werner> sorry I'm late :/
[21:30] <sepski> Werner, welcom 
[21:30] <h01ger> e
[21:31] <h01ger> :)
[21:31] <pere> ok, as long as we are not sure about network-manager, I say we delay it to r2 or later.
[21:31] <sepski> pere, agreed
[21:31] <h01ger> so network-manager fixing would need a backport. is there a bugnr? ;)
[21:31] <pere> h01ger: it does not need a backport, but to avoid diverting too far it would be nice with a backport.
[21:32] <h01ger> pere, what does it need than? a bugfix?
[21:32] <h01ger> which bug? :)
[21:32] <h01ger> #
[21:32] <Werner> I guess backports from testing are easier than too much patching ..
[21:32] <pere> h01ger: #426462 - it only work in standalone installs, because a workstation uses pam_group to grant group membership, and that does not work with hal and network-manager.
[21:33] <h01ger> pere, thanks
[21:34] <pere> I patched hal and a few others to use at_console instead of netdev group membership, but it need to be done for network-managaer too.
[21:35] <h01ger> and the problem with laptops is that if the person installing chooses workstation instead of standalone.. so we should probably document this, to "fix" it. right?
[21:35] <sepski> pere, if it does not work at all, it must be confusing to have it present, perhaps we should just remove it from workstation then. 
[21:35] <h01ger> that would be a fix we could easily make for r1 :)
[21:36] <pere> I'll move it to the standalone task.
[21:37] <h01ger> minutes: holger will document that laptops should be installed as standalone, because ldap+nfs (and therefore homedirs) will not work if the laptop is used at home/not in school..
[21:37] <pere> thanks.
[21:37] <sepski> are there documents on how to sync your homedir from your laptop to your netowork homedir ? 
[21:38] <h01ger> Andreas, we used to document "minutes" in the meeting (like i just did), so that the minute-writer can use grep for easy minute writing. feel free to do that all the time, its quite easy to ignore lines starting with "minutes:" :)
[21:38] <Andreas> OK
[21:39] <Werner> sepski: some schools have been using a setup with unison to sync between server and laptop...
[21:39] <Werner> but I'm not sure that setup was ever documented..
[21:40] <sepski> wish they did :), anyway we should move on
[21:40] * pere have not seen documentation, but did include the package on the dvd.
[21:41] <pere> so, do anyone plan to spend time on getting the r1 out soon?
[21:41] <h01ger> wow. unison looks nice. i used to use rsync :)
[21:41] <Werner> I used unison a few years ago, and it kind of did work, but needed some manually fixing from time to time..
[21:41] <sepski> the work consists of testing etch-test, asking ftpmasters for packages updates. testing etch, releasing, and PR is that correct ? 
[21:41] <pere> unison look nice, but it eats a lot of memory if your home directory is huge.
[21:41] * h01ger hopes to find time to fix d-e-doc issues and can play release manager a bit (plus the usual ftp stuff..)
[21:41] <Werner> but lets talk about r1
[21:42] <pere> sepski: yes.
[21:42] <h01ger> sepski, correct
[21:42] * finnarne = Finn-Arne
[21:42] <pere> it would be nice if the adaptec problem is fixed in r1.
[21:42] <Werner> I'll try to test some using qemu tomorrow and/or friday, and I can help doing some checking and ftpmastering..
[21:42] <winnie> sorry i was not able to attend. our router is broken today and i have no internet at home :S
[21:43] <sepski> i think i have more spare times head but it's hard to predict. ill be here on evenings if i am available. then i can help on testing and other work
[21:43] <sepski> when finnarne and winnie appere perhaps we should revisit the lwat topic when we'r finished with r1 ? 
[21:43] <h01ger> finnarne, hi. between 21:06 and 21:18 we talk about lwat... :)
[21:43] <h01ger> talked
[21:44] <h01ger> winnie, hi + ^
[21:44] <Werner> pere: do we have some servers with adaptec cards at work?
[21:44] <finnarne> h01ger: Then I'll read the log
[21:44] <h01ger> Werner, excellent idea! :)
[21:44] <pere> Werner: not that I know of.
[21:44] <Werner> hmm.
[21:44] <h01ger> pere, is dannf in the loop about that problem? or someone else from the kernel team?
[21:45] <winnie> h01ger: hy... I cant be long online... using my mobile phone... ;-)
[21:45] <pere> h01ger: not that I know of.
[21:45] <sepski> h01ger, are you realease manager, you'll abuse me and werner for testing ? 
[21:45] <winnie> something immportant?
[21:45] --- h01ger has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress | Agenda on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting | Latecomers: State you presense with /me = Real Name  | problem with adaptec raid controllers #1254
[21:45] <pere> winnie: we agreed to use 0.16-1 if it hold up with some testing.
[21:45] <h01ger> winnie, read the log when you have time..
[21:46] <pere> so, the problem is that some commonly used servers here in norway fail to install with 3.0.  or they install, but fail to boot, or install and boot, but fail to boot the second time, or they get corrupted file system after a while.  I am not sure what exactly the problem is.
[21:46] <Werner> too bad we did not get any feedback on http://bugs.skolelinux.no/show_bug.cgi?id=1254
[21:46] <h01ger> do we have debian-bug# for that bug?
[21:46] <pere> but it does not work properly.
[21:47] <pere> bugs #484 and #1254 are about these problems.  the former has a link to a similar bts bug.
[21:47] <winnie> h01ger: will do
[21:48] <pere> I suspect the problem is related to which kernel modules are loaded, and that we need to make sure the same kernel modules are loaded during installation and after boot.
[21:49] <pere> if that is the problem, we need to locate what script/package is loading the wrong kernel module, and get it to stop doing that.
[21:49] <pere> if the problem is udev, the kernel modules themselves are messed up.  if the problem is discover1, we can fix it by switching to discover (v2).  if it is something else, I am completely confused.
[21:49] <pere> finnarne: do you have any experience with these adaptec controllers?
[21:50] <sepski> basicaly it's hard to troubleshoot without the actual hardware, or someone that can test often. 
[21:50] <pere> yes.
[21:50] <h01ger> so the (probably similar) debian-bug is http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=440161
[21:50] <pere> having the PCI IDs of the problematic and working cards would make it possible to check what udev and discover try to load.
[21:51] <pere> h01ger: yes.
[21:51] * h01ger suggests to find help via the debian bts, as this could also be a way to find hardware(-testers)
[21:51] <pere> but I am not sure if it is the same problem or not.  I do not really understand the problem.
[21:51] <h01ger> yeah :/
[21:51] <Werner> do we know if this is a problem also with plain Debian Etch?
[21:51] <h01ger> we dont know
[21:51] <pere> one school decided to drop the card and buy another one with sata disks to solve the problem.  that is very sad.
[21:52] <h01ger> Werner, this is also a good question, which anybody with that hardware can quite esily find out
[21:52] <Andreas> Could ship send this card to a d-edu member?
[21:52] <Andreas> s/send //
[21:52] <pere> anyone willing to work on it?  I suspect we can get the redundant card sent to one of us. :)
[21:52] <Werner> the bugreporter from #440161 asked if we needed more testers on 14th of september..
[21:53] <Werner> hmm.. interesting bug :)
[21:53] <h01ger> pere, maybe you and Werner can share the load, as you work together ;-) *g*
[21:53] <pere> Werner: you want the card?
[21:53] <h01ger> unless someone else steps up, obviously
[21:54] <pere> I got to leave in 6 minutes.
[21:54] <Werner> pere: ok, I'll give it a shot.
[21:54] <sepski> ok we ask for the card. lets move on
[21:54] --- h01ger has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress | Agenda on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting | Latecomers: State you presense with /me = Real Name  | Norwegian version of the skolelinux folder? (Petter)
[21:54] <pere> Werner: JanRoar got the card. 
[21:54] <h01ger> thats http://wiki.skolelinux.de/SkoleLinux/Flyer
[21:54] <sepski> h01ger, your to fast ! 
[21:55] <pere> so, I got an offer to include 1000 flyers about skolelinux in a shipment going out to local county school admins in a week or so, but lack the PDF to print.
[21:55] <pere> the PDF on the german wiki is only partly translated, and I suspect it need some brushing up as well.
[21:55] <Werner> we need one to translate into Norwegian?
[21:55] <pere> (it had the german contact info. :)
[21:56] <Werner> or first one to translate it to english?
[21:56] <pere> we need someone to fix that flyer quickly, both content and translation.
[21:56] <sepski> how quickly is it needed ? 
[21:56] <pere> Werner: The english version is already ok.
[21:56] <pere> sepski: early next week, I believe.
[21:57] <h01ger> is there an update english version?
[21:57] <pere> sepski: I am not sure, but the rest of the shipment is already being printed.
[21:57] * h01ger looks again
[21:57] <pere> h01ger: not sure, but I believe so.
[21:57] <pere> so, I wanted to air this here, hoping someone could fix me a PDF in time. :)
[21:57] <Andreas> h01ger, would you stay for a moment after the mmeting so we can discuss the cdd-dev issue quickly?
[21:58] <h01ger> Andreas, unfortunatly not, i have to go and eat :/
[21:58] <Andreas> Just make a suggestion when to meet at this place.  It's only possible in evening hours but not the next three days...
[21:58] <h01ger> Andreas, in an hour, or tomorrow? i can also just reply to your mail later. basically you convinced me that cdd-dev isnt that cdbs'ish as i thought :)
[21:59] <pere> do we have next meeting planned?
[21:59] <h01ger> pere, no
[21:59] <sepski> having the english folder would help getting more people for the job, 
[21:59] <Andreas> I could not bear to let you suffer beeing hungry
[21:59] <pere> sepski: I believe the english version exist, but please check if it is true.
[21:59] <Andreas> holger: In one hour is OK - I'm busy writing the minutes and thus online
[21:59] <pere> who fixes the date for the next meeting?  it should be fixed based on the input on the wiki.
[22:00] <h01ger> pere, re: flyer: the english version is really not the latest. and i'm not sure if i want to translate that text to english... (besides time problems)
[22:00] <sepski> Andreas, summary should contain a request for speedy action from a pdf capable person/group
[22:00] * pere got to go now.
[22:00] <Andreas> pere: see you
[22:00] <h01ger> pere, have fun!
[22:00] <pere> see you. :)
[22:00] <sepski> Andreas, and it should be done from the german flyer
[22:00] <sepski> pere, cya
[22:00] <h01ger> next meeting in 2 weeks? a month? a week?
[22:00] <Andreas> sepski: I'll try to put this in.
[22:00] <h01ger> in 3 weeks we'll be in extremadura...
[22:01] <Andreas> So let's meet there ;-)
[22:01] <Werner> so 2 weeks?
[22:01] <sepski> Werner, 2 weeks is ok by me
[22:01] <sepski> but what day ? 
[22:01] * h01ger goes to eat now too. ~2 weeks is fine with me. and is good to get r1 out
[22:01] <h01ger> cu & thanks for attending!
[22:01] <Andreas> Have a good meal.
[22:01] <sepski> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting/VoteForDate is all over the board
[22:02] <h01ger> Andreas, cu later :)
[22:02] <sepski> h01ger, cya
[22:02] <Werner> so should we clean up //wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting/VoteForDate and decide by friday ?
[22:02] <Werner> but next in two weeks?
[22:02] <sepski> there are 5 for monday
[22:03] <Werner> monday is ok for me..
[22:03] <Werner> same time as now?
[22:03] <sepski> 8/10 1900 UTC ? 
[22:04] <sepski> once... 
[22:04] <sepski> well we take that then if nobody complains, 
[22:04] <sepski> then the meeting is closed
[22:05] --- sepski has changed the topic to: release command center | Debian-Edu/Skolelinux 3.0 codename "Terra" released | work on 3.0r1 going on | next meeting wednesday 2007-10-08 19:00 UTC (21:00 CEST), http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting