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<h01ger> it's 17 UTC and we have a meeting starting now :)
--- pere has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress, topic Who can write the summary?, Agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting
<pere> please, everyone present use /me = Full Name for the summary.
* pere = Petter Reinholdtsen
--- pere has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress, topic: 1. Who can write the summary?, Agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting
* klausade = Klaus Ade Johnstad
* danielsan = Daniel Hess
* h01ger = Holger Levsen
<pere> without a summary, we can just as well skip the meeting, as no-one will remember what happened and none of the assigned tasks will be done.
<pere> any volunteer to do the important task of writing and posting the summary?
<h01ger> we should really use the software described at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam for the summary writer job :-) but i guess i wont have time to research that currently :)
<pere> klausade, do you have the opportunity?
<pere> ok, no volunteer for the summary.  should we try again next week?
<klausade> pere: sadly no (i'm running between dinner with the family and this)
<h01ger> pere, last meeting daniel wrote it, before that, i did, so its your turn :-P if you insist on not, then i "volunteer" ;)
<h01ger> OTOH, if you "volunteer" i have time to look at the summary-writing software :-)
<pere> h01ger: I really wished I could, but I run stright to the movies after the meeting, and I have just too many projects going on these weeks to accept more tasks.
<pere> the little time I have to spend on skolelinux I want to spend on fixing the distribution.
<h01ger> same here, but so be it
* h01ger will write summary
<h01ger> grep will help me
<danielsan> h01ger: muchas gracias
<pere> thank you.
--- pere has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress, topic: 2. State of the release. Agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting
<pere> as far as I know, we only have one P2 bug left, and it is believed to be fixed.
<klausade> pere:  I'm unable to install todays dvd: " main-menu[1179]: WARNING **: Internal error! Cannot find "value set" in menu." bug #1229
<h01ger> **minutes: #1 invistigate https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam to get rid of the time waste to find a summary writer
<pere> I've verified that the ldap database contain the samba ID, but have no idea of the LDAP content is sufficient to solve the windows problem.
<pere> klausade: todays cd has been broken at various times of the day.  sorry about that.
<danielsan> i'm currently testing if it is realy working, and will then add some hints about how to add a windows host to the domain to the wiki
--- h01ger has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress, topic: 2.1 State of the release, remaining p1+p2 bugs | Agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting
<h01ger> **minutes #2.1 only one p2 bug left, and its believed to be fixed (#1223)
<danielsan> pere: if "net groupmap list" shows the groupmap it should work, but i'm testing this
<pere> are there any other bugs we need to fix before the release?  I've fixed a few minor usability issues today, but nothing big.  I've also reduced the amount of file edits we do at the end of the install, after finding some redundant/obsolete edits.
<klausade> pere: any idea if the image created 2 hours after the one I tested works?
* h01ger **minutes klausade just filed #1229 but pere believes this was due to broken builds during the day. we'll need to investigate this..
<pere> klausade: not yet.
<danielsan> i'll add ad displayName attribute later to get the "Domain Admins" for the windows side of the mapping in (missed that yesterday, but important is only the sambaSid)
<pere> klausade: I believe it should work, but am installing at the moment.
<klausade> pere: netinstall or dvd?
<pere> klausade: I've mostly tested netinst, but did a dvd install earlier today.
<danielsan> the dvd install does work
<klausade> danielsan: from when is your dvd?
<pere> are there any of the other bugzilla bugs that should be updated to P2 or P1?
<h01ger> pere, i want to fix the lsb-release-version and already investigated into this. i plan to do this tonite, so that we can see tomorrow morning, that nothing got broken in the process. this also includes updating the PR+marketing wikipages and informing akai to update www.s.no - btw, akai you wanted to give me access so i can edit stuff there too 
<danielsan> klausade: 17:11
<h01ger> pere, for that to answer someone needs to look at all the p3 bugs...
<pere> h01ger: access to the wiki can probably be granted by others thank akai.
<h01ger> **minutes someone should go through all the p3 bugs and see if there is any bug which should be p2
<h01ger> pere, no, i mean www.skolelinux.no, thats drupal, and afaik only akai can do that...
* h01ger can edit wiki.s.no :)
<pere> was the windows bug the reason why the release did not happen this sunday, btw?
* danielsan would gues so
<danielsan> s/gues/guess/
* pere was on a network without IRC access, so he did not pay attention.
<pere> anyone got time to check if any P3 bugs should be RC?
<h01ger> pere, danielsan, klausade: can you go thru all the p3 bugs and check if one should be p2?
<h01ger> pere, heh :)
<pere> :)
--- pere has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress, topic: 2.2. State of the release - RC5? | Agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting
* h01ger sends a mail to ask knuty if he can do this...
<pere> I urge everyone to check the bugzilla bugs, and add comments and update priority if needed.
<pere> I believe an rc5 make sense after the amount of changes since rc4.  can we make it tomorrow?
<h01ger> why not?
<h01ger> because it takes some time?
<pere> it take some time to make a release, yes. :)
<pere> I am busy on thursday, btw, but might have time tomorrow evening.
<danielsan> so polish the releasenotes and see if they are ready tomorrow?
<pere> yes.
* h01ger asked knuty and akai via mail to check p3 bugs
<pere> I would very much welcome help doing the release.
* h01ger **minutes we plan to release rc5 tomorrow
* klausade just closed a P3 bug (#1036)
--- pere has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress, topic: 2.3. State of the release - Rrelease notes and press release | Agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting
<h01ger> pere, i dont have some rights to help i believe. i could work on the wiki stuff, but i prefer to work on d-e-d...
<pere> h01ger: which right are you missing?  The only privileged operation is copying the images, I believe.
<h01ger> that one
<pere> do you have your ssh key in ~builder/.ssh/authorized_keys?
<pere> anyway, these are details.  the most work with releasing are fixing the release notes and testing the image.
<pere> if we release tomorrow, we need to move packages to etch tonight or very early tomorrow.  any ftpmaster around that can promise to handle that?
* h01ger **minutes http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/PressReleases/PressRelease_DebianEdu-3.0_Terra still has some fixmes and http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/ReleaseNotes_3.0_Terra is still empty (and http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/ReleaseNotes has too much information...)
* h01ger should be able to move tonite or tomorrow..
<h01ger> though probably^w not before 10am...
<pere> I've updated the rc5 release notes, but believe someone need to start writing the major release release notes soon.
<h01ger> yup. see minutes :)
<pere> akai said the press package should be done by tomorrow.
<h01ger> should i just move "everything" (except gnash+multiseat) from etch-test to etch after the meeting? /me looks at needs_love.html
<pere> yes.
<h01ger> ok, will do 
<h01ger> after the minutes :-P
* h01ger **minutes h01ger will push "everything" (except gnash+multiseat) from etch-test to etch after the meeting
<pere> h01ger: yeah, please wait with d-e-c and d-e-i until at least one successful install is reported.
<klausade> pere: installed main-server without a problem from the dvd where ltsp-server didn't install (#1229). Was that to be expected?
<pere> klausade: not really.  I believe I broke all profiles. :)
* h01ger **minutes except d-e-c and d-e-i - ping h01ger if you successfully installed from etch-test, then he will move that too
<pere> klausade: a complete install log is interesting.
<klausade> pere: have you seen that the screen goes black with just a blinking cursor up in the left corner while testsuit runs on another terminal?
<pere> klausade: yes.  that is by design.  the alternative was worse. :)
<h01ger> heh
<klausade> pere: ok.
<pere> ok.  anything more to say on the release notes and press release?
--- pere has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress, topic: 2.4. State of the release - Final testing| Agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting
<h01ger> nope. they need to be done :) but we can do that if there are no more bugs :)
<h01ger> final testing should be done with rc5..
<pere> please use the release manual when testing, to find out what is inaccurate and missing.
<h01ger> next point, this is quite pointless :) there is this .de youngster meeting coming up...
<klausade> pere: full log attached to #1229
<h01ger> good point
--- pere has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress, topic: 2.5. State of the release - upgrade from sarge testing | Agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting
* h01ger **minutes #2.4 please use/read and update http://wiki.skolelinux.no/DebianEdu/Documentation/Etch/ when doing test install now
<pere> I believe it is ok to update the documentation after the release, as admins are expected to upgrade their packages.
* h01ger **minutes #2.5 upgrade issues/paths should be documented in  http://wiki.skolelinux.no/DebianEdu/Documentation/Etch/Upgrades - currently there is nothing documented, but we dont believe this is right
* winnie = Patrick Winnertz
<pere> it would be nice to know how upgrades break, thought, to try to reduce the breakage.
<winnie> sorry for beeing so late
<h01ger> upgrade issues/paths should be documented in  http://wiki.skolelinux.no/DebianEdu/Documentation/Etch/Upgrades - currently there is nothing documented, but we dont believe this is right
<h01ger> hi winnie - better late than not at all :)
<pere> do anyone have time to install the sarge version adn try to upgrade?
<winnie> :)
<winnie> pere: I'll try i think
* h01ger cheers winnie 
<pere> great!  please let us know what you figure out, and add notes to the wiki.
<pere> quite a lot has changed since sarge, so I expect lots of problems.
<winnie> pere: i too :S
<h01ger> winnie, you've seen http://wiki.skolelinux.no/DebianEdu/Documentation/Etch/Upgrades  ?
<winnie> not yet, but now ;-)I
<h01ger> :)
<pere> more on that?
--- pere has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress, topic: 2.6. State of the release - announcing | Agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting
* h01ger **minutes #2.5 winnie will try to test the upgrade path - more testers welcome :)
<klausade> pere: I gave that a try once few weeks ago, following the debian release notes. Removed half of the installed packages, lots of debian-edu-stuff. Had to ship the test-server before I could dig further into it.
<pere> anyone present that work on announcing?
<pere> klausade: good point, we should probably link to the Debian release notes.
<h01ger> akai has worked on it (he said here) and pere and h01ger gave a list of magazine to contact
<pere> a list of email addresses for magazines, papers etc is needed.  if you have time, please track down such addresses.
<akai> working on it, actually
<akai> international ones, the norwegian ones Knuty have covered
<h01ger> pere, fixme about the debian release notes added to http://wiki.skolelinux.no/DebianEdu/Documentation/Etch/Upgrades
<pere> akai: yes, and the NUUG press release list can be used with our ~90 norwegian addresses.
<h01ger> akai, ask Tolimar on irc or tolimar@debian.org for contact addresses. he is (also) behind press@debian.org :)
<pere> everyone that showed up during the meeting, please use /me = Full Name for the summary.
* h01ger **minutes #2.6 akai is working on announcing the release
<pere> akai: what is done, and what is left regarding annoncing?
<akai> h01ger: i've told him i'd submit our press-release in 74-char wide lines us-ascii
<winnie> h01ger: which german linux magazines get informed about this?
<pere> winnie: the ones you provide email addresses to. :P
<h01ger> winnie, see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/ReleaseSchedule
<h01ger> (at the bottom)
<pere> I'm waiting for more info from akai.
<winnie> okay, I'll search for some emailadresses
<h01ger> akai, ask him for addresses...
<h01ger> akai, and not only tell him about utf8 or ascii or stuff like this :-P
<h01ger> next point?
* pere hopes akai would give a status update and what is left to do.
<akai> pere: NUUG + knutys channels covers norway. For the International press I've prepared to contact linux format, linux journal and linux magazine
<h01ger> akai = Anders Kringstad Hanssen 
<pere> akai: be aware that linux format is three different magasines, and linux magazine is two different.
<akai> pere: i know.
<akai> german and english for both
<h01ger> akai, please check the bottom of http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/ReleaseSchedule for more international addresses...
<akai> and for lxf there is also french? 
<h01ger> (there are more)
<winnie> sorry for the question which doesn't belong to this topic... where do I find the sarge based cd image via rsync...?
<pere> winnie: skolelinux-cd/.
<winnie> pere: this one: 
<winnie> debian-edu_sarge-i386-current.iso
<winnie> ?
<pere> akai: if the wiki page is authorative, we can add the stuff we know about there?
<akai> pere: Okay, I'll insert email-addresses, etc on the ReleaseSchedule-page
<h01ger> winnie, use google / solve this later / in /msg please
<akai> pere: it's authorative
<akai> i've kept stuff "in work" off it on purpose
<pere> ack.
<akai> not to fill it up with my thoughts :)
<pere> anything more to add on announcing?
<pere> next topic.
--- pere has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress, topic: 2.7. State of the release - anything else? | Agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting
<h01ger> should i "rename" the release versionnumber to 4.0 tonite? as discussed yesterday?
<akai> i have no problem with that, as long as it doesnt break anything
<pere> if that is do be done, it should happen tonight, yes.
<akai> we're certain that there is no "funny" checks for such things?
<pere> akai: nope, as lsb-release obviously was using that number. 
<pere> h01ger: did you figure out where to change it?
<h01ger> pere, nope as in we're not certain or as in we're certain?
<pere> nope, as in I am not certain. :)
<h01ger> pere, i have been working on a longish grep+pipe command, yes
<h01ger> pere, ok :)
<pere> h01ger: is the number fetched from the CD version string or somewhere else?
<h01ger> which. ours? the debian-installer has 4.0 in yaboot.conf and elsewhere i believe, as we dont change d-i's initrd..
<pere> I am not aware of anything in our scripts using our version for anything except reporting.
<h01ger> cool
<h01ger> i'll do it after minutes+moving packages and then we can see if/what breaks :)
<pere> h01ger: yes, ours.  If we do not know the source of the problematic version number, it is hard to know that we are changing the right location.  And I would recommend against a global sed until we know.
<h01ger> pere, i'm not planing a global sed... even with lots of pipes too many false positives..
<akai> are we preparing for release tomorrow morning then? or tonight?
<pere> h01ger: but you do not know where the number come from?
<h01ger> akai, tomorrow
<akai> ok
<pere> akai: rc5 tomorrow, that is.
<h01ger> pere, i suspect so
<akai> then i'll be a bit social here, finish up the notes and press-package tonight and post it on d-e@l.d.o for review before release :)
<h01ger> akai, i've also send you a mail asking you to do QA and go thru all prio3 bugs... so the release is very near but not there yet
<akai> please do call me if important :)
<akai> h01ger: saw
<akai> i'll look at it
<pere> akai: I suspect we can do the final release this weekend, if rc5 prove to work as it should.
* h01ger **minutes h01ger will replace the debian-edu version number from 3.0 to 4.0
<akai> pere: fine :)
* akai afk
<h01ger> akai, do you have time for that? 
<h01ger> (checking the p3 bugs..)(
<h01ger> next topic?
<h01ger> 7min left :)
--- pere has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress, topic: 3. Documentation| Agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting
<h01ger> "lynx --dump http://wiki.skolelinux.no/DebianEdu/Documentation/Etch/AllInOne|grep -i fixme |wc" gives 18 FIXMEs... 
<h01ger> but we're getting there and can update it later 
<pere> do we release with fixmes?
<h01ger> i suspect/would say so
<h01ger> of course, it would be great, not to
<pere> anyone got time to make screenshots for the installation runthrought?
* h01ger thinks thats (one of the) least important from the FIXMEs
<pere> how many, and from which part of the installer?  I suspect the screens will not change.
<h01ger> we have more basic stuff not covered, though screenshots look nice
<pere> which reminds me, will the PDF generation handle images?
<h01ger> pere, each with questions and some (fancy) others
<h01ger> pere, it should (theoretically it does for sure), havent checked yet
<pere> I suspect not, as we only download the xml, and none of the images.
<h01ger> then we need to fix/extend our scripts
<pere> yes.
<h01ger> do we release with fixmes?
<pere> I am fine with releaseing with fixmes.
<h01ger> we could say "no" and rename some to FIXMELATER ;)
<pere> it would be great to release without them, but we only have the amount of people we do, and can not wait for more. :)
<h01ger> which would be p2/p3 for documentation...
<h01ger> right. so lets release with fixmes
<h01ger> this should be mentioned in the release notes, though..
* h01ger **minutes #3: we will release with FIXMEs in the documentation
<pere> yes.  we should probably focus on the doc after the release, to make it great for r1.
<pere> more on documentation?
* h01ger **minutes #3 we will mention this in the release notes, though..
--- pere has changed the topic to: Meeting in progress, topic: 4. Next meeting | Agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting
<h01ger> wait
<h01ger> one thing
<h01ger> kursdok and (new)driftbook
<h01ger> has kursdok been replaced by itil?
<pere> there seem to be quite a lot of confusion.  I suggest we just include both, and wait for complaints.
<h01ger> or we drop both and wait for complaints
<pere> h01ger: nope, the itil book is not a replacement for kursdok, I believe.
<h01ger> this would make the source package a lot saner
<h01ger> pere, ack
<pere> no-one will miss stuff they are not aware of, so dropping will not generate complaints. :)
<pere> ok, next meeting.  when should it be?
<klausade> pere: you are right, itil is not a replacement for kursdok.
<winnie> pere: this weekend?
* pere find the entire documentation situation confusing, and hope someone else will spend time on figuring it out. :)
<pere> when is the german jungstermeeting starting?
<pere> and who is going there.  I am not, as I stay in Oslo.
<winnie> i think this weekend
<winnie> but i won't be there
<pere> sunday around 12:00 would be fine, to decide if we make the release or not.
<h01ger> pere, i spend quite some time on figuring it out. i think i'm now in favor of removing it and giving links/information about those old documents in README.debian.
<h01ger> wouldnt saturday be better?
<pere> h01ger: for documentation, I am fine with anything you guys decide.
<h01ger> so we can work on it on saturday evening / sunday
<pere> h01ger: not for me.
<h01ger> pere, ah :)
<pere> h01ger:  we can work outside meetings. :)
<pere> and we need to work independent of the meetings. 
<pere> akai, are you available this weekned?
* h01ger **minutes #3 remove kursdok and driftbook and give links/information about those old documents in README.debian.
<h01ger> pere, sure. after meetings even. but we need to decide that we want to work^wrelease :)
<pere> h01ger: actually, do not make links in README.Debian, make links from the nb/ directory, to make it easier to find.
<h01ger> but then, deciding on sunday and releasing+announcing on monday also works, maybe even better , because on mondays the press also works :)
<pere> I guess some index.html or something like that should be generated for the <langcode>/ directories.
<h01ger> pere, hmm, later yes, probably. taht is, no. shouldnt apache autoindex those dirs?
<pere> h01ger: I see more a meeting on sunday as a turning point, were we deside if we go on or abort the release for sunday.
<pere> h01ger: it does, but my point is that the links to those docs should be as easy to find as the local doc.
* h01ger suggest 12 UTC then :)
<h01ger> pere, ok, noted in todo
<pere> sunday 2007-07-22 12:00 UTC it is.  see you all ther.e
<pere> thank you all for joining the meeting. 
<pere> it is now closed.
* h01ger thanks too :)
* pere heads for the movies.