times are CEST:

Jul 09 19:01:19 <pere>  here we go.
Jul 09 19:01:22 <--     H has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
Jul 09 19:01:30 *       pere = Petter Reinholdtsen
Jul 09 19:01:31 *       h01ger Holger Levsen
Jul 09 19:02:06 *       sep = Ronny Aasen
Jul 09 19:02:20 <pere>  I can moderate. any summary writers around?
Jul 09 19:02:26 *       white = Steffen Joeris (does not know if he can handle the whole meeting though)
Jul 09 19:02:33 <h01ger>        white!!
Jul 09 19:02:42 <white> just arrived here
Jul 09 19:02:45 <white> but please keep going
Jul 09 19:02:49 *       danielsan = Daniel Hess
Jul 09 19:03:08 ---     h01ger has changed the topic to: 1. looking for summary writer | agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting  
Jul 09 19:03:40 <pere>  white: very good to see you back online. :)
Jul 09 19:03:45 <sep>   white, :)
Jul 09 19:04:14 <pere>  anyone volunteer to write the summary and post it to the list?
Jul 09 19:04:19 <sep>   i wont have time to write a summary. off right after the meeting. 
Jul 09 19:05:28 <pere>  so, no summary, and we can pretend the meeting never happened? :)
Jul 09 19:05:42 *       h01ger volunteered last time already, when he shouldnt. i dont want to repeat that mistake today.
Jul 09 19:06:24 *       danielsan will write the summary, no one else will
Jul 09 19:06:34 <sep>   cheers danielsan 
Jul 09 19:06:41 <pere>  great!
Jul 09 19:06:50 <white> thanks danielsan 
Jul 09 19:06:52 <pere>  next on the list is status of the release.
Jul 09 19:07:20 <h01ger>        \o/
Jul 09 19:07:26 ---     pere has changed the topic to: 2. Status of the release / 2.1 status of rc4 agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting  
Jul 09 19:07:38 ---     h01ger has changed the topic to: 2. Status of the release / 2.1 status of rc4  | agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting  
Jul 09 19:07:50 <h01ger>        still works on ppc :)
Jul 09 19:07:57 <pere>  I've been tracking network traffic since the release, and people seem to be downloading.
Jul 09 19:08:07 <danielsan>     works too on am64
Jul 09 19:08:10 <pere>  http://maintainer.skolelinux.no/munin/skolelinux.no/administrator.skolelinux.no-if_eth0.html
Jul 09 19:08:10 -->     H (~h@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net) has joined #debian-edu
Jul 09 19:08:29 <white> pere: did you have luck with the ldap problem? was formorer helpful?
Jul 09 19:08:54 <pere>  white: I have not been able to reach him.  sent him an email and have looked for him on IRC, but he has been away every time I looked for him.
Jul 09 19:09:03 <white> :(
Jul 09 19:09:25 <h01ger>        pere, white: which bug # is that?
Jul 09 19:09:47 <pere>  h01ger: #1211.
Jul 09 19:10:24 <pere>  if no sulution show up today or tomorrow, I say we keep going without certificate checking as before, and try to fix it for r1 or lenny.
Jul 09 19:10:50 <pere>  anyone want to say anything more about rc4 before we move on to bugs?
Jul 09 19:11:07 *       white cheers to everyone making it possible
Jul 09 19:11:11 ---     pere has changed the topic to: 2. Status of the release / 2.2 sremaining p1+p2 bugs | agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting  
Jul 09 19:11:11 <h01ger>        pere, ok. its p2 :) 
Jul 09 19:11:23 <white> feels good to read such an announcement mail after coming back from a long journey :)
Jul 09 19:11:29 <white> pere: sorry, keep going
Jul 09 19:11:31 <pere>  h01ger: yes, but we could reduce it to p3 if no solution is present.
Jul 09 19:11:57 <pere>  we did run into some procedural problems with rc4.  the autobuilders failed, and no-one was around to fix it.
Jul 09 19:12:13 <pere>  that killed most of my planned testing for sunday morning.
Jul 09 19:12:16 <h01ger>        pere, that will be fixed better than it was ever before
Jul 09 19:12:20 <white> pere: i think in this case manual rebuilds should be undertaken
Jul 09 19:12:25 <white> and binary-only uploads are acceptable
Jul 09 19:12:37 <pere>  if we had ran into a bug or problem, we would not had time to fix it in time for the weekend release.
Jul 09 19:12:57 <pere>  white: well, for amd64 and powerpc, not many can do manual rebuild.
Jul 09 19:13:02 <h01ger>        that wanna-build (for edu, experimental, nonfree and volatile) moves out of abas basement and into some isp hosting facility. and that half the buildd admin network is at a wedding is also unusual :)
Jul 09 19:13:35 <white> pere: true, i think only the DDs are able to login into the devel machines :(
Jul 09 19:13:50 <pere>  anyway, lets move to the last p1 and p2 bugs.
Jul 09 19:14:49 <pere>  the critical bug with backup proved to be partly user error and partly bad code.  the code to dump the ldap server can't run in parallel with itself, so when someone copied the file to a .orig file in the same directory, the backup failed.
Jul 09 19:15:01 <pere>  it has been closed.
Jul 09 19:15:39 <pere>  #1209 (read/write access to the thin clients hard drive) is being fixed by vagrantc.  he had a patch ready, and will upload soon.
Jul 09 19:16:14 <pere>  the two diskless workstation bugs are still a problem (#1180 and #1210)
Jul 09 19:16:52 <h01ger>        **minutes: the two diskless workstation bugs are still a problem (#1180 and #1210)
Jul 09 19:16:53 <pere>  and #1211 (ldap ssl cert checking not working) can be left alone for this release, I believe
Jul 09 19:17:08 <h01ger>        **minutes: 4 p1+p2 bugs left
Jul 09 19:17:12 *       vagrantc will be on a train for two days
Jul 09 19:17:24 <h01ger>        pere, so downgrade 1211 and we only have three bugs left?! :)
Jul 09 19:17:32 <pere>  yeah. :)
Jul 09 19:17:42 <h01ger>        wow
Jul 09 19:18:10 <pere>  but the diskless workstation ones need more work, and I do not have the hardware to test it.  klausade do, but only for short periods of time.
Jul 09 19:19:23 <pere>  I noticed something on the KDE menu that is not a bug report yet.  there is a section called 'lost and found' (tapt og funnet in norwegian), with ~5 menu items in it.  seem like a bug to me, but I do not knokw the kde menu enough to be suer.
Jul 09 19:19:28 <pere>  anyone else saw it?
Jul 09 19:19:54 <white> pere: what was in?
Jul 09 19:20:04 <pere>  noteedit among other things.
Jul 09 19:20:48 <danielsan>     no lost and found here
Jul 09 19:20:52 <white> i do not really know about a kde menu entrys "lost and found"
Jul 09 19:20:56 <white> it sounds weird
Jul 09 19:20:59 <pere>  I'm doing a new install now, and will report to bts as soon as I have the list
Jul 09 19:21:04 <white> thanks
Jul 09 19:21:10 <pere>  perhaps it is only for norwegian bokmål installs?
Jul 09 19:21:34 <pere>  also, I keep running into download timeouts when I do netinst installs.  no idea why.
Jul 09 19:21:35 <danielsan>     i've a german install here, here it is not
Jul 09 19:21:36 <white> pere: but that would be a bug as well
Jul 09 19:21:43 <pere>  luckily it work to restart from the d-i menu.
Jul 09 19:22:30 <h01ger>        pere, same here. (timeout)
Jul 09 19:22:36 <pere>  hm.
Jul 09 19:22:47 <pere>  I do not believe it is release critical, but it is annoying.
Jul 09 19:23:09 <pere>  but getting ltsp-make-client working is RC, and I need help from someone with two machines and time to spend on testing.
Jul 09 19:23:41 <h01ger>        test setup inside qemu? (no external networking..)
Jul 09 19:24:00 <pere>  h01ger: I do not know how to do it.  need a client and a server connected in qemu.
Jul 09 19:24:14 <sep>   i guess on can run the  qemus using a tap interface. 
Jul 09 19:24:22 <sep>   but dont know the exact command lines
Jul 09 19:24:22 <pere>  I tried to run qemu from within qemu as suggested by vagrantc, but it did not work (failed to mount the root, I believe).
Jul 09 19:24:29 <danielsan>     pere: maybe over an bridge interface on the host
Jul 09 19:24:44 <pere>  sep: I guess so to, but have not had time to investigate it.  if someone know the recipe, please add it to the wiki.
Jul 09 19:25:09 <h01ger>        pere, no. just qemu with virtual interfaces. then, i really mean s/qemu/virtualbox/. there it is really easy (virtual networking, not bridget, not nat'ed)
Jul 09 19:25:23 <pere>  I've spent today working on partitioning, trimming the minimum sizes and changing how 'the rest' of the disk is spent when there is space left.
Jul 09 19:25:58 <pere>  now, the extra space is spent as unused LVM volume group space, and not on home0 nor /.
Jul 09 19:26:31 <pere>  this need to be tested.  Also, the new minumum sizes on main-server and main-server+thin-client-server should be checked.
Jul 09 19:26:43 <h01ger>        **minutes #1180 needs help
Jul 09 19:26:52 <pere>  the problem is just that with the extra packages, it take forever to install. :)
Jul 09 19:27:34 <pere>  btw, anyone with a Adaptec 2100S RAID controller able to look into #484?
Jul 09 19:27:59 <h01ger>        nope. ponder the submitter?
Jul 09 19:28:09 <pere>  I've asked, but suspect he is on vacation.
Jul 09 19:28:24 <pere>  he do not have enough clue to figure out where the driver went anyway.
Jul 09 19:28:53 <pere>  h01ger: can you make a bugzilla bug about the timeout?  P3, I guess.
Jul 09 19:29:17 <h01ger>        pere, i'd say that is d-i upstream
Jul 09 19:29:18 <danielsan>     maybe someone will show up after reading the summary
Jul 09 19:29:20 <pere>  anyway, I believe we are doing very well, but the two hard ones might take a long time.
Jul 09 19:29:44 <pere>  unless I get my hands on test equipment, or someone with test equipment can spent time on it.
Jul 09 19:30:03 <h01ger>        pere, cant you grab some test boxes from the uni it department? ;)
Jul 09 19:30:15 <danielsan>     i will have a look at tls after writing the summary, maybe i'm lucky and find something :)
Jul 09 19:30:21 <pere>  I've improved the ltsp-make-client script quite a bit, so it report more useful errors and in general work better, but have no idea why it break ldm nor why usb sticks do not mount.
Jul 09 19:30:24 *       h01ger fetches his pizza :-D
Jul 09 19:30:27 <pere>  h01ger: nope.
Jul 09 19:30:47 <pere>  ok.  more on the bugs? 
Jul 09 19:31:02 ---     pere has changed the topic to: 2. Status of the release / 2.3 RC5? | agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting  
Jul 09 19:31:49 <pere>  do we need rc5, or can we release?  I suspect if we manage to get the last fixes in early this week, we can make the release next weekend, and plan for an update in three months.
Jul 09 19:32:11 <pere>  it depends on how rc4 is received, of course.  
Jul 09 19:32:46 <h01ger>        hmmm. in three months means debian-edu-doc cant be updated (in our etch) until in three months? (i thought we'd aim for two :)
Jul 09 19:32:58 <danielsan>     i think if now big changes not easy to test and verify show up, it should be sufficient to make some testinstalls short bevore the release 
Jul 09 19:33:02 <pere>  h01ger: we can try to aim for two months, no problem there.
Jul 09 19:33:17 <h01ger>        pere, and i'm not sure if we can fix those bugs this week, as you said "but the two hard ones might take a long time."
Jul 09 19:33:17 <white> i am really sorry, but i need to go to bed. Can't keep my eyes open anymore
Jul 09 19:33:26 <h01ger>        white, sleep well! enjoy!
Jul 09 19:33:29 <pere>  h01ger: and actually, it does not mean that.  we can make updated documentation availalable before the new release.
Jul 09 19:33:32 <white> pere: i will get back to you about d-e-artwork in debian stable
Jul 09 19:33:32 <danielsan>     white: good night
Jul 09 19:33:35 <pere>  white: good night.
Jul 09 19:33:42 <white> thanks and see you soon friends
Jul 09 19:33:44 <h01ger>        pere, but then the cd will autpbuild and the md5sum changed..
Jul 09 19:34:06 <pere>  h01ger: eh, no?  we copy the releases to skolelinux-cd/ when we make releases.
Jul 09 19:34:24 <pere>  cd-etch-dvd isn't the release image.  it is a prospective release image.
Jul 09 19:34:28 <h01ger>        right
Jul 09 19:34:34 <h01ger>        cool
Jul 09 19:34:52 <h01ger>        so lets decide this friday if we want/need rc5 this sunday?
Jul 09 19:35:00 <pere>  the md5sum change even if no package change on the CD/DVD.  timestamps change every build.
Jul 09 19:35:07 <pere>  yeah.
Jul 09 19:35:43 <danielsan>     sounds good
Jul 09 19:35:47 <h01ger>        **minutes: #2.3: lets decide this friday if we want/need rc5 this sunday?
Jul 09 19:35:51 *       pere got a phone.
Jul 09 19:36:01 *       h01ger finally good food
Jul 09 19:36:21 ---     h01ger has changed the topic to: 2. Status of the release / 2.4 release notes and press release | agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting  
Jul 09 19:36:35 <--     esc has quit (Quit: leaving)
Jul 09 19:36:41 -->     esc (esc@antilope.in-berlin.de) has joined #debian-edu
Jul 09 19:36:47 *       h01ger suggest to simply copy the minutes from last week for this point (2.4) to the minutes of today :)
Jul 09 19:37:09 <pere>  did anyone try to make contact with these people?
Jul 09 19:37:30 <h01ger>        not besides posting to the list
Jul 09 19:37:49 *       h01ger volunteers to send personal mails and opens his mail client
Jul 09 19:38:28 <h01ger>        next point?
Jul 09 19:38:32 *       klausade klaus ade johnstad
Jul 09 19:38:34 <pere>  yeah
Jul 09 19:38:52 <klausade>      pere: i've also seen the   ~ programs in lost+found, very annoying.
Jul 09 19:39:22 ---     h01ger has changed the topic to: 2. Status of the release / 2.5 final testing | agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting  
Jul 09 19:39:39 <pere>  klausade: can you report the bug?
Jul 09 19:39:52 <h01ger>        re: #2.5: not yet :) but it reminds me that i have not seen any upgrade (from sarge) testing...
Jul 09 19:39:57 <klausade>      pere: yes, will do.
Jul 09 19:40:06 <pere>  include the program names.
Jul 09 19:40:31 <--     H has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
Jul 09 19:40:38 <pere>  how should the final testing be done?
Jul 09 19:41:18 <h01ger>        no idea. same as it ever was (=manually). Ticho (Martin Ferrari) is writting a debian cd testing framework as part of GSoC - buts thats future stuff
Jul 09 19:41:20 <pere>  and related to this, should we keep the selftest code enabled in the final release?  it was intended for us developers, but it is useful to detect network and config errors.
Jul 09 19:41:52 <pere>  btw, there is something worng with the source cd.  a lot of packages are missing, and a lot of extra packages are present.  no idea why.
Jul 09 19:41:57 <h01ger>        it might scare users. but then it also alerts+warns users. i'd leave it
Jul 09 19:42:09 <klausade>      pere: for sure someone should try to see how an upgrade from sarge goes. I think we here are mostly testing new fresh installs.
Jul 09 19:42:09 <pere>  run ./is-sourcedvd-complete in CD-administrator to check it.
Jul 09 19:42:12 <sep>   i'd leave it too. 
Jul 09 19:42:17 <h01ger>        pere, file a bug (p1) to track it?
Jul 09 19:42:31 <pere>  ok, lets keep it.
Jul 09 19:42:46 <pere>  h01ger: p3, at most.  this is our first source CD, so a best effort is enough, I believe.
Jul 09 19:43:16 <pere>  klausade: good point.  testing upgrades would be nice.  did anyone test it so far?
Jul 09 19:43:22 *       h01ger thinks its p1 to make sure we dont violate gpl..
Jul 09 19:43:49 <pere>  h01ger: well, I am not holding up the release because of build problems with the source CD. :P
Jul 09 19:43:53 <h01ger>        pere, i believe noone "systimatically" tested such upgrades yet
Jul 09 19:44:06 <klausade>      pere: i think not. as the kiosk stuff present will breake all those with customized taskbars and such, and most schools do change those.
Jul 09 19:44:30 <h01ger>        uh
Jul 09 19:44:59 <pere>  klausade: are you sure it will break them?  I expect it to merge with existing config.  thougth I have constantly ran into upgrade problems with kde because desktop files change name and location across upgrades.
Jul 09 19:45:51 <sep>   hmm i guess we could disable isolinux support on the source dvd ? no need to have that bootable ? 
Jul 09 19:45:54 <klausade>      pere: it doesn't merge. up until a few days ago all icons that had to manually added to the task bare became "you are not allowed to performe this action" when you clicked it.
Jul 09 19:45:56 <pere>  h01ger: earlier, we did not have a source CD.  Now we do.  It consist the source of almost all our packages, so a few minor bugs to it is not enough for me to propose to delay the release.
Jul 09 19:46:16 <pere>  sep: no need to have it bootable, yes. :)
Jul 09 19:46:24 <pere>  klausade: oh.
Jul 09 19:46:51 <h01ger>        pere, agreed
Jul 09 19:47:27 <pere>  the source dvd includes 1296 source packages, and ./is-sourcedvd-complete report that 100 packages are missing.
Jul 09 19:47:48 <pere>  so we have more than 90% of the source present.
Jul 09 19:48:03 <klausade>      pere: you get a nice box saying:  "Sorry KDE-panel: you are not authorized to execute this service"
Jul 09 19:48:14 <pere>  :(
Jul 09 19:48:33 <pere>  I guess we need to explain how to handle that in the release notes...
Jul 09 19:48:54 <klausade>      pere: I think white might have changed that the last few days, but i'm not yet sure. the hole kiosk stuff isn't documented and not easy changed.
Jul 09 19:48:56 <pere>  ok, moving on to announcing?
Jul 09 19:49:04 <sep>   pere, i guess the redundant evolution+iceweasel would save up some MB's for other packages
Jul 09 19:49:11 *       h01ger suggests to skip #2.6 and #2.7, take "upgrade testing from sarge" in the list of topics for next meeting and go on to #3
Jul 09 19:49:32 <h01ger>        pere, i'd skip "announcing" as we need the release notes and the PR first
Jul 09 19:49:36 <h01ger>        and only have 11min left
Jul 09 19:49:41 <pere>  sep: I do not believe the source dvd is too full.
Jul 09 19:49:44 <pere>  h01ger: agree.
Jul 09 19:50:04 ---     pere has changed the topic to: 2. Status of the release / 3. release documentation  | agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting  
Jul 09 19:50:09 ---     pere has changed the topic to: 3. release documentation  | agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting  
Jul 09 19:50:38 <pere>  h01ger: go ahead.
Jul 09 19:50:41 <h01ger>        the release documentation should go into the debian-edu-doc package IMO...
Jul 09 19:50:47 <pere>  yes.
Jul 09 19:50:47 <h01ger>        and is not ready/written yet..
Jul 09 19:51:02 <h01ger>        http://wiki.skolelinux.no/DebianEdu/Documentation/Etch/ is where you can edit it
Jul 09 19:51:21 <h01ger>        then there is a script, which downloads that as docbook and converts it to pdf
Jul 09 19:51:28 <h01ger>        now i wonder where this should go:
Jul 09 19:51:57 <h01ger>        currently, /usr/share/doc/debian-edu-doc/ has subdirectories de, es, fr, and so on
Jul 09 19:52:11 <h01ger>        and inside there were directories, driftbook, itil and so on
Jul 09 19:52:24 <h01ger>        but whats a good (directory) name for the "wikibook"
Jul 09 19:52:36 <h01ger>        and how to cope with etch+lenny+and so on
Jul 09 19:52:37 <h01ger>        ?
Jul 09 19:53:01 <pere>  what is wikibook?  the itil doc is also a book on the wiki, and it is not the only one.
Jul 09 19:53:13 <h01ger>        wikibook is my lame working title
Jul 09 19:53:19 <h01ger>        to go away from driftbook
Jul 09 19:53:19 <pere>  for the release doc?
Jul 09 19:53:22 <h01ger>        yes
Jul 09 19:53:28 <h01ger>        but "wikibook" is crap
Jul 09 19:53:42 <pere>  what about 'release documentation'?  PErhaps add Debian Edu/Etch somewher.e
Jul 09 19:53:47 <h01ger>        as very little people understand it, same as driftbook
Jul 09 19:53:59 <h01ger>        pere, thats a very long directory name ;)
Jul 09 19:54:00 <pere>  well, driftsbok is understandable in norwegian. :)
Jul 09 19:54:08 <h01ger>        pere, _only_ in norwegian 
Jul 09 19:54:09 <pere>  relnotes ?
Jul 09 19:54:09 <h01ger>        :)
Jul 09 19:54:19 <h01ger>        relnotes sounds to technical
Jul 09 19:54:23 <sep>   h01ger, how about the debian way ? /devel/documentation ? 
Jul 09 19:54:28 <pere>  cutebunny?
Jul 09 19:54:46 <h01ger>        sep, it's _user_ documentation :)
Jul 09 19:54:46 <pere>  h01ger: It is technical, and is supposed to be technical.
Jul 09 19:54:57 <h01ger>        pere, but it's _user_ documentation :)
Jul 09 19:54:58 <sep>   when we release etch it becomes etch/documentation 
Jul 09 19:54:59 <pere>  debian edu is techincal.
Jul 09 19:55:08 <pere>  h01ger: no, it is sysadmin documentation.
Jul 09 19:55:27 <pere>  pupils and teachers will need another kind of documentation.
Jul 09 19:55:40 <h01ger>        but not for exp. unix sysadmins. we market debian-edu as "can be easily set up and maintained by teachers"
Jul 09 19:55:48 <pere>  sure.
Jul 09 19:56:06 <h01ger>        release-doc?
Jul 09 19:56:24 *       h01ger will think after the meeting and come back with ideas to this channel
Jul 09 19:56:47 <pere>  release-doc sounds good to me.
Jul 09 19:56:54 <sep>   debian edu installation and reference 
Jul 09 19:57:05 <h01ger>        deiar :)
Jul 09 19:57:16 <pere>  on to the howtos?
Jul 09 19:57:27 <h01ger>        sounds good (the long form). what i dislike about release-doc is the release part...
Jul 09 19:57:30 ---     h01ger has changed the topic to: #3. release documentation  #3.1 moving user howtos | agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting  
Jul 09 19:57:30 ---     pere has changed the topic to: #3. release documentation  #3.1 moving user howtos | agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting  
Jul 09 19:57:33 <h01ger>        :)
Jul 09 19:57:44 <h01ger>        he HowTos from [WWW] http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/HowTo/ are either user- or developer-specific. I suggest to move to [WWW] http://wiki.skolelinux.no/DebianEdu/Documentation/Etch/HowTo
Jul 09 19:57:59 <pere>  all of them, or the sysadmin/user doc?
Jul 09 19:58:04 <h01ger>        and leave pointers on the old howto pages, to keep links/bookmarks working
Jul 09 19:58:15 <h01ger>        pere, all which are not related to developing debian-edu
Jul 09 19:58:44 <h01ger>        the borderline is probably "howto turn a debian install into debian-edu"
Jul 09 19:58:48 <pere>  I must admit, I see the point of having it on a wiki with docbook support, but really wish we could move more stuff into the debian infrastructure and not away from it.
Jul 09 19:58:58 <h01ger>        YES
Jul 09 19:59:00 *       h01ger too
Jul 09 19:59:10 <h01ger>        but we can always move back...
Jul 09 19:59:11 <pere>  did anyone ask for wiki.debian.org to get proper docbook support?
Jul 09 19:59:19 <pere>  h01ger: yes, but it is a lot of work to move wiki pages.
Jul 09 19:59:26 <h01ger>        i can ask, but afaik the machine still runs sarge
Jul 09 19:59:34 <h01ger>        pere, cant we move on the fs level?
Jul 09 19:59:50 <pere>  h01ger: well, perhaps wiki.debian.org can be pointed to a machine running etch. :)
Jul 09 19:59:51 <h01ger>        pere, what version do we run?
Jul 09 20:00:03 <pere>  h01ger: no idea.
Jul 09 20:00:10 <h01ger>        ok. next point?
Jul 09 20:00:13 <h01ger>        oh, wait
Jul 09 20:00:15 <pere>  ?
Jul 09 20:00:28 <h01ger>        please contribute to http://wiki.skolelinux.no/DebianEdu/Documentation/Etch/ !
Jul 09 20:00:34 <h01ger>        very important call! :)
Jul 09 20:00:41 <pere>  yes, and check the current content.
Jul 09 20:00:46 ---     pere has changed the topic to: #4 powerpc | agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting
Jul 09 20:00:49 <h01ger>        translations will not be ready for the release i think
Jul 09 20:00:52 <pere>  danielsan: you are on.
Jul 09 20:01:10 <pere>  h01ger: well, we have all summer to fix translations and documentation. :)
Jul 09 20:01:37 <h01ger>        yup :)
Jul 09 20:01:51 <h01ger>        we should note that in the release notes. /me does
Jul 09 20:01:54 <pere>  danielsan, are you there?
Jul 09 20:02:03 <danielsan>     some school have "old" ppc hardware which new programms may stop to support after intel macs got more popular
Jul 09 20:02:33 <danielsan>     i would be nice if we could offer them linux as a solution to use the "old" hardware with newer software
Jul 09 20:02:39 <danielsan>     s/i/it/
Jul 09 20:03:29 <pere>  yes.  for that to happen, the ppc build must be tested and fixed regularly, and some school should demonstrate the need for it.
Jul 09 20:03:33 <h01ger>        and pere sees the chicken and egg problem differently but is happy to save space on the "multi-source-dvd". so lets do it? i mean, create a ppc etch release cd and announce the ppc support as "experiemntal"?
Jul 09 20:03:36 <danielsan>     maybe more schools will get interested in ppc skolelinux in some month because of that
Jul 09 20:04:05 <h01ger>        pere, you read what i wrote at 19:13 about that buildd-network?
Jul 09 20:04:07 <pere>  the debian popcon show approximately 1.5% of the debian population uses ppc, and even less for ubuntu (which dropped ppc from their list of supported oses).
Jul 09 20:04:13 <pere>  h01ger: yes.
Jul 09 20:04:30 <pere>  I am still waiting for the first ppc machine to show up on popcon.skolelinux.org. :)
Jul 09 20:04:57 *       h01ger will "safe the planet" and turn of his ppc machine after the test installs :)
Jul 09 20:05:15 <danielsan>     i think h01ger point is a good one, people would no expect that the first ppc release is perfect because ppc is different from i386/amd64
Jul 09 20:05:26 <pere>  danielsan: well, I seriously doubt that a lot of schools will install skolelinux on their ppc machines.  but if we have people testing and fixing it, and the security team is ok with supporting it, I am not going to try to stop ppc from being included in the release.
Jul 09 20:05:28 <h01ger>        but at some time we need to decide how the multi-dvds should look like. and some point very soon
Jul 09 20:05:54 <pere>  after all, I believe no-one is going to use it, so it will not give us much support hassle.
Jul 09 20:06:15 <h01ger>        so lets ask white and Werner and if they say "yes, fine" we do it?
Jul 09 20:06:48 <pere>  it do give us some development hassle, thought, as the partition tables are special for ppc, and the package binary sizes are different too.  the partition fill levels we see on i386 and amd64 do not apply to ppc.
Jul 09 20:07:23 <pere>  h01ger: actually, I want the ppc binaries on the DVD, to reduce the amount of packages included to a point where it does not overflow the source dvd.
Jul 09 20:07:28 <danielsan>     maybe h01ger could check this?
Jul 09 20:07:48 <h01ger>        danielsan, check what?
Jul 09 20:08:02 <danielsan>     h01ger: how much space the proviles need?
Jul 09 20:08:03 <pere>  I am just reluctant to state that it is a supported, working architecture.  if it is, we provide netinst CD, if it isnt, we don't.
Jul 09 20:08:33 <h01ger>        pere, how about the words "experimental support" in the release notes?
Jul 09 20:08:49 <h01ger>        danielsan, sure. but so far they were fine
Jul 09 20:08:51 <pere>  haha.   experimental will do, I guess. :)
Jul 09 20:09:28 <h01ger>        ok. i'll send a mail to werner + white to ask them..
Jul 09 20:09:37 <pere>  danielsan: just installing is not enough to check.  partman will scale partitions up to fill the disk, so the minimum sizes might be too small and yet it work for all larger disks.
Jul 09 20:10:26 <pere>  for example, the backup partition had mimum size 32 MiB, while it used 36 MiB on the disk.  I increased the minimum to 64 MiB to solve it.
Jul 09 20:11:00 *       h01ger thinks his mac only has 4gb currently, but i can easily exchange that to 8gb
Jul 09 20:11:00 <pere>  more on ppc?
Jul 09 20:11:03 <h01ger>        nope
Jul 09 20:11:11 <danielsan>     no
Jul 09 20:11:12 ---     pere has changed the topic to: $5 extremadura meeting in 2007 | agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting
Jul 09 20:11:41 <h01ger>        http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Extremadura2007 is very incomplete
Jul 09 20:12:21 <h01ger>        and there are already 4 groups listed on http://wiki.debian.org/WorkSessionsExtremadura2007 - and afaik there are only 3 slots
Jul 09 20:12:34 <pere>  I saw that one meeting a month for oktober, november and desember was the plan.
Jul 09 20:12:54 <h01ger>        among those four there is http://wiki.debian.org/CustomDebian/Extremadura2007
Jul 09 20:13:04 <h01ger>        pere, yeah. 3 months, for teams :)
Jul 09 20:13:08 <h01ger>        four even
Jul 09 20:13:23 <h01ger>        so i think we should push this a bit if we want to get a slot
Jul 09 20:13:35 <pere>  I believe it is a good idea to go, and would prefer november.
Jul 09 20:15:07 <h01ger>        should we "highjack" (or not) the customdebian meeting?
Jul 09 20:15:14 <h01ger>        +try to
Jul 09 20:15:29 <pere>  I am sure we would be a good fit to meet at the same time as the rest of the custom gang.
Jul 09 20:15:48 <pere>  I guess fai would be a good fit too. :)
Jul 09 20:16:06 <h01ger>        yeah :)
Jul 09 20:16:37 <pere>  ok.  anything more?
Jul 09 20:16:39 <h01ger>        there is also a fai meeting proposed
Jul 09 20:16:48 *       pere is not happy we keep going over time.
Jul 09 20:16:59 <h01ger>        but i think the fai meeting will be full with fai people anyway
Jul 09 20:17:06 *       h01ger neither happy with the time
Jul 09 20:17:12 <pere>  next meeting?
Jul 09 20:17:24 ---     pere has changed the topic to: #6 next meeting | agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting
Jul 09 20:17:26 <h01ger>        next monday??
Jul 09 20:17:40 <pere>  after the release, hopefully.  
Jul 09 20:18:06 <h01ger>        you bet?
Jul 09 20:18:07 <pere>  I'm just returning from state of the map that day (the OSM conference), and might be very busy.
Jul 09 20:18:27 <pere>  which reminds me, I can not do the release work next weekend.  busy at conference.
Jul 09 20:18:31 <h01ger>        or at the end of next week?
Jul 09 20:19:01 <pere>  I'm busy thursday, the rest is free.
Jul 09 20:20:19 <pere>  what about the rest of you?
Jul 09 20:20:23 <danielsan>     monday i'm busy too
Jul 09 20:20:33 <danielsan>     the rest would be (more or less) ok
Jul 09 20:20:52 <pere>  tuesday?
Jul 09 20:21:06 <danielsan>     tuesday is good
Jul 09 20:21:14 <h01ger>        should probably be fine with me (as any other day that week)
Jul 09 20:21:34 <pere>  ok.  same time?
Jul 09 20:21:58 <h01ger>        yup
Jul 09 20:22:16 <danielsan>     then 17 utc / 19 cest
Jul 09 20:22:18 <pere>  ack.  thank you all for joining.  see you at least next week. :)
Jul 09 20:22:33 <h01ger>        thanks too and see you too :)
Jul 09 20:22:35 <danielsan>     thanks all :)
Jul 09 20:22:42 <pere>  h01ger: if you can reset the old topic, that would be great.  I've lost it.
Jul 09 20:25:05 <h01ger>        can do
Jul 09 20:25:17 <h01ger>        danielsan, please add http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Extremadura2007 to the minutes
Jul 09 20:25:26 <danielsan>     h01ger: sure
Jul 09 20:26:45 ---     h01ger has changed the topic to: terra rc4 is out | next meeting , tuesday 2007-07-17 17 UTC (19 CEST)| agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting  | open p1+p2 issues: #1180 #1209 #1210 #1211 | closed issues: (need testing) #1183 #1199 #1146 #1156 #1165 #1201 #1202 #1205 #1204 #1208 | fetch image + test image howto at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/HowTo/TestCDinstall
Jul 09 20:30:03 <pere>  danielsan: and please add the summary directly in <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting/20070709 >, and not in a subpage.  Also, please post the content and not only the URL to the mailing list, to increase the chance of people reading the summary.