16:01  * pere = Petter Reinholdtsen
16:01  * white = Steffen Joeris
16:01 < pere> sorry for my late arrival.  got dragged out of the office.
16:01  * vagrantc = Vagrant Cascadian
16:01  * danielsan = Daniel Hess
16:01  * h01ger = Holger Levsen
16:02 < h01ger> pere, 18:01 is okay for me :)
16:02 < pere> please check if the agenda on <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting > is correct.
16:02 < pere> first on the agenda is the summary writer.  volunteers?
16:03  * klausade = klaus Ade Johnstad
16:03 -!- pere has changed the topic to Meeting in progress, agenda on <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting >.  Topic: Who can write the summary?
16:04 < white> well i fear this might become a long point :)
16:04  * h01ger nods :-/
16:04 < pere> white: yes, seem like no-one got time or is willing to write the summary.
16:04 < white> i could write one, but not post it before tuesday
16:04 < white> then i have something to do during the flight :(
16:05  * h01ger volunteers
16:05 < white> but if somebody else wants to step in, i would favour that
16:05  * white hugs h01ger 
16:05 < h01ger> as if i had time
16:05 < white> hihi
16:05 < pere> h01ger it is.  great.  next topic is the release status.
16:05 -!- pere has changed the topic to Meeting in progress, agenda on <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting >.  Topic: Status of the release
16:05  * itais =José L. Redrejo
16:06 < white> pere: can you start?
16:06 < h01ger> white, its basically in the agenda :)
16:06 < pere> Earlier, we agreed that P1 and P2 bugs should be fixed before we release.  do we agree with the classification of bugs?  should anyone change?
16:07 < pere> should any of the P3-> become P1 or P2, or should any of the P1 and P2 bugs become P3->?
16:07 < white> 1179 
16:07 < white> i agree that it became p3
16:07 < pere> if we do, we can move on to the list of P1 and P2 bugs.
16:08 < white> the session handling could be improved, but not for r0
16:08 < white> IMHO
16:08 < pere> the top one is #1211, handled in a separate agenda item later in this meeting.  skipping it.
16:08 < h01ger> i'm not sure if http://bugs.skolelinux.no/show_bug.cgi?id=1179 isnt p2
16:08 < white> another thing for me is 1180
16:08 < pere> then there is #1165 and #1209, which I believe is related to pam and ltsp.
16:08 < klausade> I would raise http://bugs.skolelinux.no/show_bug.cgi?id=1151 to P2
16:09 < pere> h01ger: feel free to increase the priority and explain why in bugzilla.
16:09 < white> i do not know how many people actually use diskless workstations
16:09 < h01ger> klausade, i would request more info for 1151 - what is this about?
16:09 < pere> klausade: feel free to raise it and explain why in the bug.
16:09 < white> klausade: isn't it just a small notifier popup?
16:10 < white> i never used adept, so i don't know exactly
16:10 < h01ger> white, diskless workstations is a core feature when describing the debian-edu architecture
16:10  * pere have no idea how to avoid the default packages in KDE, and do not plan to learn that before we release.
16:10 < white> h01ger: beside thin clients, workstations and the other profiles
16:11 < klausade> white: nowadays almost every one I know that deploy debian-edu use  diskless workstations.
16:11 -!- TheLaw [mario@] has joined #debian-edu
16:11 < pere> danielsan: are you working on the pam/ltsp issue?  any estimated arrival time for a fix?
16:11 < pere> I believe the diskless workstations are very important too.
16:11 < white> pere: i believe somebody should judge about the priorities, though it might be hard
16:11 < danielsan> pere: i do, i'll test the fix later again and will get back to you on how to intigrate it
16:11 < white> we do not really come closer to the release otherwise i guess :(
16:12 < vagrantc> this is a major change in design ... but diskless workstations would be easier handled in a separate chroot
16:12 < white> klausade: hmm i thought it would be a minor case
16:12 < pere> white: sure, but I focus on the P1 and P2 bugs, and might not know about one of the lower priority bugs unless someone raise them.  so I would rather have the priority raised to bring it to our attention, and then lowered again when we explain why we believe P3-> is the correct priority.
16:13 < white> ok
16:13 < pere> danielsan: later today, or?
16:13 < klausade> white: without diskless workstations lots of schools would stop using debian-edu.
16:13 < pere> danielsan: so you are working on both #1165 and #1209?
16:13 < danielsan> pere: don't know if i have time later
16:13 < h01ger> **minutes: #2: bugs mentioned 1211 1179 1180 1165 1209 1151
16:13 < white> klausade: am i really that far away from the practical installations? (me is afraid :( )
16:13 -!- h01ger has changed the topic to Meeting in progress, agenda on <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting >.  Topic #2: Status of the release
16:14 < h01ger> (added topic #)
16:14 < h01ger> white, yes ;)
16:14 < pere> I am working on the diskless workstation bugs with klausade, whenever he and I have time together to test.  I lack a test environment myself. :(
16:14 < pere> that is #1180 and #1210.
16:14 < danielsan> pere: i've focused on 1165 but has already had a look on 1209 (need to test some things there)
16:14  * h01ger thinks the bug prios are more and less correct. we can discuss indivial bugs always after the meeting
16:15 < white> can you assign these bugs to yourself?
16:15 < h01ger> **minutes: #2: bugs mentioned 1211 1179 1180 1165 1209 1151 1210
16:15 < pere> any volunteers to look at #1151 and 1179?
16:15  * h01ger notes its good practice to cc: the bug to the mailinglist if assigned to oneself :)
16:16 < white> i am not sure if they are p1/2 for r0
16:16 < pere> the networkmanager problem in #1203 would be nice to have solved, as well as the backup problems reported in #1002 and #1083.
16:16  * pere is looking at the P3 bugs now.
16:16 < h01ger> OMG: <h01ger> klausade, i would request more info for 1151 - what is this about?      - i filed that bug...
16:17 < white> :)
16:17 < h01ger> pere, i had the idea to treat the p3 bugs as "its allowed to fix p1-p3 bugs in etch r1"
16:18 < h01ger> **minutes: #2: nice to have fixed: #1203 1002 1083
16:18 < pere> h01ger: sure.  I have fixed a few of the low-hanging P3 bugs when I saw a simple solution.
16:18 < white> btw it would be nice to have high severities for the high priority bugs as well
16:18 < pere> any volunteers for #1151?
16:19 < pere> (the adept_notifier bugs)
16:19 < h01ger> klausade, do you understand 1151? you asked for raising it - i would suggest to just close it
16:19 < white> i do not have a test environment and i am relocating, otherwise i would try to look into it
16:20 < pere> I understand this agenda point as one where we try to make sure someone is working on fixing all the P1-P2 bugs.  Except for #1151, I believe we are done.
16:20 < white> do we want to keep adept_notifier?
16:20 < white> which user should have it seen
16:20 < klausade> h01ger: I don't understand it. I solve it my removing adept-packages.
16:20 < pere> white: it make most sense for standalone installations.
16:20 < white> i believe adept_notifier is exactly doing what it should :)
16:20 < white> pere: then only having this package on standalone machines is IMHO the fix
16:20 < klausade> if you need an blinking icon to remind you of upgrading your system, then ....
16:21 < pere> white: sure, but I suspect that require reorganizing the tasks.
16:21 < h01ger> pere, #1151 is p3
16:21 < klausade> yes, having it only on standalone sound like a good fix.
16:21 < white> i will try to work on it or address it 
16:22 < itais> h01ger: currently #1151 is p2
16:22 < pere> at the moment, workstation include the standalone task, and the standalone task can not have any packages not installed on workstations and thin-client-servers.
16:22 < h01ger> now its p3 :)
16:23 < pere> to implement a fix, we would have to change the workstation task and move all packages in the standalone task to a task included by workstation, except the adept-notifier package.
16:23 < white> pere: that is a design error :(
16:23 < pere> sure.  I suspect the idea was to have most packages in the desktop-* tasks, but that was never done.  they only include a few packages.
16:24 < pere> anway, I believe we are done handling P1-P2 bugs and suggest we move on.
16:24 < white> pere: i can copy/n/paste the tasks, but is that really worth the effort
16:24 < white> i am not quite sure how big this icon is :)
16:24 < pere> white: no, that is not a good idea.  it was like that earlier, and the standalone task was almost useless because of it.
16:25 -!- pere has changed the topic to Meeting in progress, agenda on <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting >.  Topic #2: LDAP SSL certificate checking, or not? Bug  #1211. (Petter)
16:25 < pere> so, the problem was explained in an email to debian-edu earlier today.
16:25 < klausade> white: it's a normal size icon, looking like a trafficsign with an exclamation mark inside, and with a stormy weather cloud above it. 
16:26 < pere> I wanted to solve the long-standing volunability in the ldap configuration, getting the clients to check if the ldap server they are talking to is the right one.
16:26 < white> klausade: i'll install it later and have a look :)
16:26 -!- h01ger has changed the topic to Meeting in progress, agenda on <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting >.  Topic #2.2: LDAP SSL certificate checking, or not? Bug  #1211. (Petter)
16:26 < pere> I am almost done, but apache/lwat and samba did not like it.  I suspect courier and other packages using ldap might protest to, but do not have a test for that.
16:26 < pere> pam/nss do work, so that part is handled, at least.
16:27 < pere> At this point I suspect we need someone with good knowledge on ssl and ldap certificate handling to figure what is wrong.
16:27 < danielsan> pere: samba and apache/lwat are always together with ldap on the same host?
16:27 < h01ger> danielsan, most always
16:27 < h01ger> :)
16:28 < pere> danielsan: there is nothing in the architecture demanding it.  it is ment to be possible to run them on separate hosts to spread the load in large installations.
16:29 < pere> do we have access to anyone with ssl/ldap knowledge?  if not, I fear we end up keeping the old setting, where the validity of the ldap ssl certificate was never checked.
16:29 < pere> it was broken most of today, but I fixed it by reinserting tls_reqcert never in ldap.conf.
16:30 < pere> I take the silence as a no.  ok.  then you all know about the man-in-the-middle attack issue.  I guess we keep it.
16:30 < klausade> pere: maybe bjÞrn ove?
16:31 < h01ger> pere, actually i dont know about the issue. i suggest to document that in the bug.
16:31 < pere> after all, all normal nss lookups are non-encrypted and will not be checked anyway, so anyone with access to the network could set up a rouge ldap server granting himself root privileges that way.
16:31 < pere> the only way to fix that is to enable encryption for nss too, and that will slow down everything quite a bit.
16:32 < white> pere: i pinged someone, he might have a look into it
16:32 < pere> great!
16:32 < white> at least i know that he has the ability to fix it
16:32 < pere> next topic?
16:33 -!- pere has changed the topic to Meeting in progress, agenda on <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting >.  Topic #2.3: RC4?
16:33 < h01ger> looking at the difference between etch and etch-test on http://ftp.skolelinux.org/skolelinux/needs_love.html i think its a good idea to have rc4 before we release
16:34 < white> it feels wrong to break my word , but i think it is needed
16:34 < pere> I agree.  can we succeed in fixing the remaining P1-P2 bugs for rc4?
16:35 < h01ger> **minutes #2.2 it seems we haven't been able to fix this bug, so white asked someone for help
16:35 < white> this should be up to the people preparing rc4 i guess
16:36  * h01ger suggest to release rc4 this weekend (whether its p1+2 free or not) and then release rc5 too, if only for testing images of what then will be called "final" ;)
16:36 < white> h01ger: you want to bring out 2 more release candidates?
16:36 < h01ger> white, yes. but the 2nd i want to rename to "final" later
16:37 < pere> h01ger: remember that the -install package need to be modified for the final release, as it includes the version number.
16:37 < white> that should be done with the last upload
16:37 < h01ger> pere, version as in package or ?
16:37 < white> i would also prefer to finally upload them to unstable
16:38 < pere> h01ger: version as in rc4
16:38 < h01ger> ah
16:38 < white> h01ger: no as in /etc/debian-edu/config file
16:38 < h01ger> anyway, first rc4
16:38 < pere> the content of /etc/debian-edu/config need to be updated.
16:38 < pere> btw, did all of you test the etc-svk stuff?  It is very useful to check the config editing we do.
16:39 < h01ger> so should we say "rc4 is stalled as long as we have p1+p2 bugs" or should we just release rc4 this weekend? or say the former but move the packages from etch-test to etch now anyway, but not call it a release?
16:39 < pere> try debian-edu-etc-svk diff -r6 | less in a freshly installed system to see what I mean.
16:39 < white> i would prefer to release rc4 soonish
16:39 < pere> h01ger: I would go for rc4 this weekend, and urge everyone to fix the bugs before that.
16:40 < danielsan> on sunday, so saturday is left for fixes?
16:40 < pere> who got time to do the release?
16:41 < pere> sunday sounds good.  saturday will be spent testing and fixing, as this normally take quite a few hours.
16:41 < h01ger> **minutes #2.3 go for rc4 this weekend. saturday is left for fixing all p1+p2 bugs and sunday for building & testing
16:41 < pere> I might have time to help maknig the release, but am really happy if the new release staff get more experience. :)
16:42 < white> i would love to, but i am flying away :(
16:42 < h01ger> **minutes #2.3 move packages from etch-test to etch on saturday night
16:42 < pere> white, sep, pere and danielsan are the only one with such experience, if I am not mistaken.
16:43 < pere> most of the work is fixing the release notes, and everyone can help making sure they are updated.
16:43 < pere> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/ReleaseNotes
16:43 < white> everybody can help, as pere is around for copying the isos
16:43 < white> it is testing, release notes, copying and sending mail
16:45 < pere> yeah.  ok.  I guess I will do it this time, as no-one else volunteers.
16:45 < white> pere: thanks
16:45 < pere> I'll try to find time for it, but can not garantee it.
16:45 < pere> sundays are normally quite quiet.
16:45 < pere> next topic.
16:45 < danielsan> i think we will find enough people on saturday to do releasenote polishing, if pere moves the isos someone sending the may will also be found
16:45 -!- pere has changed the topic to Meeting in progress, agenda on <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting >.  Topic #2.3: Release notes
16:46 < pere> the link go to the press release, and not to the release notes.
16:46 < pere> I believe we need two documents, one release note explaining what is new and shiny since the last stable release, and another is the press release.
16:47 < h01ger> do we need them translated?
16:47 < h01ger> or want? :)
16:47 < white> yes i think it should be translated
16:47 < danielsan> that would be nice
16:47  * h01ger can move the wiki pages around for that
16:47 < pere> the release note can probably be based on the <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/ReleaseNotes > page, with info added for the stuff that changed since test01, while the press release need less detail and more words to provoke warm fuzzy feelings in the reader.
16:48 < white> pere: you should maybe become a politican :)
16:48 < pere> I believe the press release should be translated.  the relase notes would be nice to have translated.
16:48 < h01ger> there is also http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/PressReleases/PressRelease_DebianEdu-3.0_Terra - which is in a less good shape IMO as i thought
16:48 < klausade> thinclient/disless workstations doesn't work together, bug #1210. that should go into release notes, urging people to test and fix that.
16:48 < pere> white: already tested that.  liked technical work better. :)
16:49  * h01ger saw a pic of pere with a tie the other day ;)
16:49 < h01ger> (linux magazine..)
16:49 < white> anyway let's continue :)
16:49 < white> 10 minutes left and 10 points :(
16:49 < h01ger> **minutes #2.4 press release should be translated
16:49 < white> s/10/6/
16:50 < pere> klausade: I agree.  added.
16:50 < h01ger> **minutes #2.4 press release http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/PressReleases/PressRelease_DebianEdu-3.0_Terra needs finishing
16:50 < h01ger> **minutes #2.4 http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/ReleaseNotes needs cleanup too
16:50  * h01ger suggest to skip #2.4 and #2.5
16:50 < h01ger> aeh, 2.5+2.6
16:50 < pere> any volunteers for polishing the press release?  I urge k4x, knut and akai, which have proven capable of talking to journalists.
16:51 < pere> h01ger: I agree.  skipping 2.5-2.6.
16:51 < h01ger> **minutes #2.4 urge  k4x, knut, akai and others (YOU) to polish the press release
16:51 -!- h01ger has changed the topic to Meeting in progress, agenda on <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting >.  Topic #2.7: anything else?
16:51 < pere> no volunteers yet.  ok.  moving on to 2.7: anything else?
16:52 < h01ger> (about the release)
16:52 < pere> I'm not aware of anything.  move on?
16:52 < white> i want to have a release party
16:52 < pere> I want to join one. :)
16:52  * h01ger hands white a pony to ride to europe from .au
16:52 < white> i will have one in melbourne with some DDs :)
16:53 < h01ger> next point?
16:53 -!- pere has changed the topic to Meeting in progress, agenda on <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting >.  Topic #3: debian-edu security announces - why manually copied from debian dsa, replace by procmail rule? (h01ger)
16:53 < white> i would like to say something to this :)
16:53 < pere> good
16:53 < h01ger> basically the topic says it all, though i originally planned to write a much more polite mail about this :-)
16:53 < white> :)
16:53 < white> ok, we put it in place, because there are some false positives
16:53 < pere> who is the security team?
16:53 < white> there is a system in place, which does it automatically
16:54 < white> pere: there was a team list
16:54 < white> pere: basically it was laprag, finnarne and werner. a year ago i joined as well
16:54 < h01ger> i had the idea, a.) to lower your workload and b.) because out of date DSA look bad
16:54 < pere> white: thanks.  found Finn-Arne Johansen, Morten Werner Olsen and Steffen Joeris
16:54 < h01ger> whois laprag?
16:54 < white> ragnar
16:54 < pere> ragnar wisløff.
16:54 < h01ger> ah
16:54 < white> it was a nice service for our users and i would like to keep it
16:54 < pere> he started working for a oil company and got busy.
16:55 < white> it costs some time, but i think it is worth it to inform our users
16:55 < white> we filter the DSA and only provide information for our packages
16:55 < h01ger> white, i think the service is nice if its timely. if you send a mail two month after debian dsas, whats the point
16:55 < white> and i also did some work behind the curtain with werner for the next release cycle
16:55 < h01ger> white, that filtering can also be done automatically
16:55 < white> h01ger: there are false positives
16:55 < white> and just forwarding every DSA is imho not the right approach
16:56 < h01ger> manual work is errorprone and lame. there are these things called computers ;)
16:56 < white> i would like to keep the current system in place
16:56 < pere> is this a manpower problem.  would anyone want to join the security team to work on it?
16:56 < h01ger> white, but you dont actually push the packages around, do you? so the users get the DSAs sometimes weeks after the package was updated?!
16:57 < white> there is a DESA about the DSAs once a month
16:57 < white> pere: i do not see a manpower problem
16:57 < pere> h01ger: users are expected to fetch their packages directly from security.debian.org.
16:57  * h01ger would volunteer to help to create a system without false positives
16:57 < white> i apologize for some delays with these DESAs
16:57 < h01ger> white, usually. but right now you travel to .au, Werner is MIA, and...
16:58 < h01ger> and imo its confusing to first get the package via security.d.o and weeks or days later the information about it
16:58 < white> all other security related stuff is worked on
16:58 < pere> we are running out of time.  I suggest h01ger, white, Werner and finnarne talk about this later.
16:58 < pere> or is there something this meeting need to decide?
16:58 < white> it is some stuff behind the curtain, so people do not see it, but it is not a problem
16:58 < h01ger> white, as said, i volunteer to help setup a working filter. and if we do that, you win some free time
16:58 -!- pere has changed the topic to Meeting in progress, agenda on <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting >.  Topic #4: Cipux (h01ger)
16:58  * h01ger nods pere 
16:59 < white> h01ger: ok, fixing the dsa-parser to work with proxy and to improve it to see flase-positives would indeed help a lot with these DESAs :)
16:59 < pere> 35 seconds left
16:59 < pere> :D
16:59 < h01ger> last week i wrote a mail to the german list, explaining that some people looked at the cipux code and that its not production ready, so the german team should stop promoting it
17:00 < pere> I sw some german email I could not read, yes.
17:00 < h01ger> (and asking people to look into lwat instead and see if it has all the needed features)
17:00 < h01ger> today i looked at wiki.skolelinux.de and saw that they promote webmin for sarge in their docs
17:00 < pere> for sarge we are using webmin still. :)
17:01 < h01ger> and there are cipux pages and cipux is being worked on. but so far, on the wiki, no cipux promotion. 
17:01 < h01ger> "only" at fairs and on the list
17:01 < h01ger> i bring this up, because..
17:01  * pere just remember he need to see how wlus->lwat upgrading goes...
17:02 < h01ger> i think no local team should promote "bad" software, because this might backfire on the whole project
17:02 < h01ger> ("bad" as in "not production ready")
17:03 < h01ger> i suspect some people dont see or understand the difference between installing a testing version of tuxracer or openoffice and the central ldap tool...
17:04 < pere> I agree, but on the other hand the individual teams are expected to test and develop tools that can later be integrated into the official release.
17:04 < white> well i would be careful with openoffice :)
17:04 < h01ger> white, with openoffice you can only blow up yourself. with an ldap tool the whole network is at risk
17:04 < pere> but one thing is internal work, and another thing is pushing it to trusting users.
17:05  * h01ger agrees on what pere said about testing and developing
17:05 < white> i am sorry to bother, but is the meeting over?
17:05 < h01ger> white, where can i get the source of the dsa-parser? 
17:05 < white> h01ger: hold on a sec
17:06 < pere> h01ger: thanks for bringing it up.  I suspect we agree that we should limit promotion of server ssytems to production ready software.
17:06 < white> h01ger: on alioth svn/debian-edu/trunk/security
17:06 < pere> h01ger: last topic is next meeting.  I suggest sunday evening.
17:06 < h01ger> **minutes #3 dsa-parser:  on alioth svn/debian-edu/trunk/security
17:07 < white> h01ger: if i can express some wishes: 1. going through a proxy, 2. checking false positives, 3. working with the python version in etch and sid (but they should be identical now, right?)
17:07 < pere> btw, are any of you aware that <URL: http://debian-edu.alioth.debian.org/ > is updated from the alioth _CVS_!
17:07 < h01ger> **minutes #4: we should limit promotion of server sytems to production ready software.
17:07 < h01ger> **minutes #4: tuxracer, ooo and ldap tools
17:07 < pere> re security work.  the output from debsecan is scary.
17:08 < white> it was a nice system, until it was dropped :)
17:08 < h01ger> http://debian-edu.alioth.debian.org/logs/securitylist.html - interesting
17:08 < white> this is not used by us anymore
17:08 < h01ger> is that completly outdated? then we should redirect debian-edu.alioth.debian.org to wiki.d.o/DebianEdu
17:09 < pere> h01ger: I believe it is totatly outdated, yes.
17:09 < white> and for the terra release cycle i am talking to the testing team and other people
17:09 < pere> I noticed the CVS by accident during debconf7.
17:09 < h01ger> **minutes #3: whites wishes: 1. going through a proxy, 2. checking false positives, 3. working with the python version in etch and sid (but they should be identical now, right?)
17:09 -!- pere has changed the topic to Meeting in progress, agenda on <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting >.  Topic #5: Next meeting
17:10 < pere> quickly, or in 2 weeks?  I suggest quickly
17:10 < white> we will keep an eye on all the packages we have in etch local (which is also one reason, why i would like to keep them to a minimum)
17:10 < pere> I want this release out.
17:10 < pere> white: yes.  a few more might be needed for the access problem.  hal and libpam-foreground.
17:10 < white> <- not really amused :(
17:10 < h01ger> pere, monday?
17:11 < pere> and a new networkmanager to fix an issue there.  it can be a clean backport, luckily.
17:11 < white> pere: but yeah, i will make sure that we have the best possible support we can have (and i will bother a lot of people for that :) )
17:11 < pere> we might want to delay the networkmanager issue to r1, thought.
17:11 < h01ger> white, needs_love.html should list differences to security.d.o - its on my todo list :)
17:11 < white> h01ger: would also be a nice feature, yes :)
17:11 < h01ger> next meeting when?
17:12 < pere> I'm busy tuesday, the rest look fine.  I am going to the openstreetmap conference next weekend, tought.
17:12 < h01ger> this monday
17:13  * h01ger waves
17:13 < pere> this monday work for me.  white is in transit, thought.
17:13 < white> please go ahead though
17:14 < pere> 16:00 UTF monday?
17:14 < h01ger> 17 UTC?
17:14 < pere> ok
17:14 < h01ger> though i could live with 16
17:14 < pere> 19:00 norwegian time is better for me.
17:15 < h01ger> **minutes #5 next meeting: next monday, 17 UTC
17:15  * h01ger bows
17:15 < pere> ok.  at least me and h01ger meet on monday.  I believe that concluded this meeting.  thank you for joining.
17:16  * danielsan will be there too
17:16 < h01ger> \o/ :)