Apr 12 20:00:29 <pere>  so, I guess the meeting is on?
Apr 12 20:00:59 <sepski>        yes
Apr 12 20:01:05 <sepski>        ( think )
Apr 12 20:01:14 *       jever = JÃŒrgen Leibner
Apr 12 20:01:20 *       sepski = Ronny Aasen
Apr 12 20:01:36 *       pere hat das Thema geÀndert zu: Meeting in progress, topic "Is a new Backupsolution for DebianEdu needed?" |  http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting
Apr 12 20:01:42 *       pere = Petter Reinholdtsen
Apr 12 20:01:53 *       zobel = absent now
Apr 12 20:02:18 <jever> My point
Apr 12 20:02:25 <pere>  jever: yes, please go ahead.
Apr 12 20:02:26 *       kaplan = Lior Kaplan
Apr 12 20:02:38 <pere>  (and if anyone know topics missing on the agenda, add them soon)
Apr 12 20:02:46 <jever> I wrote at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Status/Etch what I think about it
Apr 12 20:02:58 <jever> hope you all had noticed it
Apr 12 20:03:05 <jever> and read
Apr 12 20:03:22 <jever> I tested and wrote a Howto
Apr 12 20:03:44 <jever> The testserver is running without errors for noe three days
Apr 12 20:03:57 <jever> s/noe/no/
Apr 12 20:04:16 <sepski>        jever, can you preseed backuppc ? 
Apr 12 20:04:24 <jever> so I want to hear if it is a good idea to use this package
Apr 12 20:04:50 <jever> sepski: I have never done this
Apr 12 20:05:08 <pere>  In my view, backup fulfill two needs, one is disaster recovery, the other is recovering from human errors.  the former is done by sysadmins, while the latter should be done by individual users.  what is backuppc providing?
Apr 12 20:05:15 <jever> May be I can learn it with help 
Apr 12 20:05:59 <jever> backuppc provides methods to backup with rsync smb and tar
Apr 12 20:06:12 <jever> it builds a pool with hardlinks
Apr 12 20:06:32 <jever> it provides a gui for admins and for users
Apr 12 20:06:45 <sepski>        pere, could a user restore his files with slbackup ? 
Apr 12 20:06:47 <jever> it is a tool for doing backups on disk
Apr 12 20:06:52 <jever> not on tape
Apr 12 20:06:58 <pere>  sepski: not sure.
Apr 12 20:07:09 <pere>  sepski: Werner would know.
Apr 12 20:07:11 <sepski>        pere, i didn't think so.. but i never tried 
Apr 12 20:07:35 <jever> as finnarne wrote, he is developing a php gui for slbackup
Apr 12 20:07:41 <pere>  sepski: allowing users to recover their own files is a great service to the users.
Apr 12 20:08:08 <jever> yes
Apr 12 20:08:29 <sepski>        backuppc is a lot larger and have more functionality then rdiff-backup tho. rdiff-backup does it's work but not much more then that. 
Apr 12 20:09:07 <jever> I think a teacher working at school as admin cant use it in a disaster
Apr 12 20:09:17 *       k4x = Kurt Gramlich
Apr 12 20:10:07 <jever> it is possible for large sites, to put backuppc on a standalone backupserver
Apr 12 20:10:30 <sepski>        i think we can all agree that backuppc have more features then rdiff-backup. but does someone have the time to get it on the cd. preseed it. and make it run out of the box ? 
Apr 12 20:10:36 <pere>  jever: can you, Werner and finnarne talk and find a solution you all agree on?  I'm not sure we here at this meeting are able to make a decision, as only you seem to have experience in using the backup solutions?
Apr 12 20:10:58 <sepski>        on the other hand... how sane is it to have a backup running on localhost to localhost out of the box...
Apr 12 20:11:02 <pere>  sepski: is slbackup working at the moment, out of the box?
Apr 12 20:11:18 <pere>  sepski: it is very useful for end user file recovery. :)
Apr 12 20:11:35 <sepski>        if they grow the backup dir .. yes
Apr 12 20:11:46 <jever> I think finnarne will write his gui and put his tool on cd, so I will ask him
Apr 12 20:13:35 <pere>  I suspect we are better of this time by leaving slbackup in there, if it is working at the moment.
Apr 12 20:13:43 <jever> so I expect, if werner and finnarne will agree that we all together could bring it on cd?
Apr 12 20:14:04 <pere>  jever: just add the debian package as 'Ignore:' in some task, to get it on the DVD.
Apr 12 20:14:09 <jever> It is a chance for me to learn how to do this
Apr 12 20:14:29 <sepski>        i dont know if it works
Apr 12 20:14:41 <jever> so who can teach me to do this?
Apr 12 20:14:42 <pere>  jever: having it on the DVD is not going to meet much resistance.  Having it installed by default need more thought.
Apr 12 20:14:50 <sepski>        jever, but we also want to release. 
Apr 12 20:15:13 <sepski>        on the dvd no problem but preinstalled configured and working needs hours
Apr 12 20:15:23 <pere>  jever: look in the alioth svn, src/debian-edu/tasks/.  Add a line 'Ignore: package' in it, to get the package on the DVD.
Apr 12 20:15:40 <pere>  jever: remember to update debian/changelog when you modify the package.
Apr 12 20:15:46 <jever> so I made an environment to get backuppc running like slbackup
Apr 12 20:16:15 <jever> I will try
Apr 12 20:16:40 <pere>  jever: great.  just ask if you get stuck.  don't waste too much time struggeling. 
Apr 12 20:16:59 <jever> pere: thanks
Apr 12 20:17:03 *       pere hat das Thema geÀndert zu: Meeting in progress, topic "Status of the dvd" | http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting
Apr 12 20:17:12 <sepski>        slbackup seams to work 
Apr 12 20:17:41 <jever> ves slbackup works
Apr 12 20:17:42 <pere>  so, I am not up-to-date on the status of the DVD, but have done some testing yesterday and today.
Apr 12 20:17:48 <pere>  anyone know the status?
Apr 12 20:18:29 <jever> I cannot test because I have no dvd-rom-drive :(
Apr 12 20:18:29 <pere>  no-one?
Apr 12 20:18:37 <sepski>        i have a feeling that mainserver is ok. main+ws installes way too much
Apr 12 20:18:41 *       pere is testing with qemu.  Got no DVD writer either.
Apr 12 20:18:53 <sepski>        i have not tested main+ltsp in a week but it worked at the time
Apr 12 20:19:01 <sepski>        i have not tested ws or standalone
Apr 12 20:19:05 *       jever has to old hardware to test with qemu
Apr 12 20:20:00 *       pere am testing main+ws at the moment, and it is installing too much, yes.
Apr 12 20:20:02 <jever> k4x: has there been tests in Testcenter?
Apr 12 20:20:15 <k4x>   jever: no still not
Apr 12 20:20:26 <pere>  I've changed a lot of packages from suggests/recommends to ignore:, to make sure they are not installed by default, but just included on the DVD.
Apr 12 20:20:29 <sepski>        pere, main+ws fails in the end when /usr is 100% full
Apr 12 20:20:52 <pere>  I've dropped evolution, java, and a few other large packages.  hope it will be enough soon.
Apr 12 20:20:56 <sepski>        i'd also like people that test to update http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Devel/DiskUsage 
Apr 12 20:21:14 <sepski>        since i'm now making partman recipes blindfolded
Apr 12 20:21:22 <pere>  I've also compared the package lists from edubuntu with the content of our dvd, and made sure most of the edubuntu packages are on our dvd.
Apr 12 20:21:38 <jever> fine
Apr 12 20:21:49 <pere>  next, I plan to compare the list of packages installed by stock debian/etch with laptop+desktop-kde, to check if some packages are forgotten.
Apr 12 20:21:59 <pere>  I know some laptop packages are missing from our task. 
Apr 12 20:22:12 <pere>  (and some should be dropped, we should use cpufrequtils, not the other alternatives.
Apr 12 20:22:22 <sepski>        ofcourse not when it installs way to many packages :)
Apr 12 20:24:10 <pere>  I updated the src/debian-edu/README file, explaining the different keywords used in the tasks.  If you find a package which should not be installed, please make sure it is listed as 'ignore'.
Apr 12 20:25:44 <sepski>        nice to know :)
Apr 12 20:27:14 <pere>  the ignore-packages will get on the DVD, after the depends, recommends (both installeD) and suggests (not installed, I believe).
Apr 12 20:27:33 <pere>  the avoid-packages I plan to make sure are listed as excluded packages.  this is not implemented yet.
Apr 12 20:30:04 <sepski>        i also think that the security mirror error resurfaced for some reason
Apr 12 20:30:19 <pere>  sepski: yes, I saw it today.  
Apr 12 20:30:36 <pere>  is there some code to detect if the apt source is available, and only add it if it is?
Apr 12 20:31:58 <sepski>        white fixed this last time i dont know. 
Apr 12 20:32:15 <pere>  hm.  I do not know either.
Apr 12 20:32:40 <sepski>        but we can ofcourse do the same as i did for 50mirror. 
Apr 12 20:33:07 <sepski>        i test if we boot a dvd or a cd. but i assume we could check for a configured network instead
Apr 12 20:33:50 <pere>  perhaps do wget to security.debian.org, and enable the security apt source if it work?
Apr 12 20:34:21 <sepski>        something like that. 
Apr 12 20:34:41 <sepski>        i will look into that part
Apr 12 20:34:48 <pere>  great.
Apr 12 20:35:09 <pere>  I'll continue looking at the package list, trimming it down while making sure the DVD is filled with useful software.
Apr 12 20:35:52 <jever> maybe apt-spy can help?
Apr 12 20:36:03 <pere>  jever: probably. :)
Apr 12 20:36:26 <k4x>   pere: pleace check the packages on the One Laptop Per Child Live Cd
Apr 12 20:36:30 <sepski>        is there any other way to choose the order of the menu ? then depends on d-.-? 
Apr 12 20:36:51 <sepski>        s/ d-.-/d-e-i/
Apr 12 20:36:51 <pere>  k4x: can you provide the package list?
Apr 12 20:37:13 <pere>  sepski: I am only aware of that way.  why do you need it?
Apr 12 20:37:16 <k4x>   pere: yes, i will chack and send via mailing list
Apr 12 20:38:39 <sepski>        pere, i want nic detection and netcfg to work on the netinstall cd :)
Apr 12 20:38:57 <pere>  so, how far are we away from releasing a test release?  from the final release?
Apr 12 20:39:28 <sepski>        pere, it should atlest not fail  during the installation. full /usr 
Apr 12 20:39:59 <pere>  yes, that is easy to fix. :)
Apr 12 20:40:44 <k4x>   pere: please inform before releasing, so that we are able to do some public relation stuff
Apr 12 20:40:52 <sepski>        then a test release should not be too far away
Apr 12 20:41:11 <jever> fine
Apr 12 20:41:12 <pere>  k4x: sure.  I suspect we are at least a few weeks away.  but a test release should be done the next few days, as soon as the DVD is installable.
Apr 12 20:41:23 <sepski>        after that we need to check services (atleast samba is broken)
Apr 12 20:41:34 <sepski>        and test upgrades
Apr 12 20:42:09 <jever> why is samba broken?
Apr 12 20:42:22 <pere>  broken samba isn't listed on <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Status/Etch >?
Apr 12 20:43:27 <sepski>        klaus was testing it at the gathering in oslo. it was not possible to join the domain
Apr 12 20:44:13 <sepski>        i belived he had updated the wiki. but i am obviously mistaken
Apr 12 20:46:00 <sepski>        hopefully he'll read the log/summary :)
Apr 12 20:46:36 <pere>  anything else we should cover on the status today?  who got time to make a dvd release in the next few days?  should we aim for a test release this weekend?
Apr 12 20:46:55 <jever> think so
Apr 12 20:47:00 <sepski>        if all profiles install yes. 
Apr 12 20:47:29 <sepski>        not all combinations, but atleast all singel selected profiles
Apr 12 20:47:36 <sepski>        i know main works 
Apr 12 20:47:40 <pere>  I'm testing main+ws.  who is testing standalone?
Apr 12 20:48:15 <sepski>        i can do that tomorrow perhaps
Apr 12 20:49:28 <pere>  anyone got a setup to test a workstation installation?  preferably with a separate main-server around.
Apr 12 20:50:28 <jever> perhaps me tomorrow
Apr 12 20:50:40 <pere>  I would very much like the output of dpkg --get-selections for each installed system.
Apr 12 20:50:53 <jever> ok
Apr 12 20:52:45 <pere>  so, are we done?  next meeting?
Apr 12 20:53:13 <jever> in two weeks I guess
Apr 12 20:53:34 <pere>  2007-04-26, same time and place?
Apr 12 20:53:40 <jever> yes
Apr 12 20:53:44 <sepski>        ok by me
Apr 12 20:54:02 <pere>  fine with me too.
Apr 12 20:54:52 <sepski>        localization config is on the status page. that is a werner package right ? anyone know if it's fixed  ? 
Apr 12 20:55:18 <pere>  sepski: markos__ maintain it, and I wrote it.  not sure if it is still needed, but suspect so.
Apr 12 20:56:04 <pere>  it need a caring hand still, as far as I know.  we need a way to set dictionary etc, and I suspect it is our best shot at the moment.
Apr 12 20:57:48 <pere>  ok.  I guess we can close this meeting now.  any objections?
Apr 12 20:57:51 <sepski>        none