<finnarne> I know that lwat pulls in ~8 MB on the CD, I have filed a bug against smarty-gettext, which could have med us loose another 2 MB (if I remember corretcly) <finnarne> sepski: Last night I intalled cipux, and it needed 10 MB downloaded stuff. <RalfG> we could use a better compression tool...... <k4x> as i see, more people are working on CipUX than on lwat ? <finnarne> Maybe some of the stuff are on the CD already, but I doubt that <C14r> mostly standard perl stuff <C14r> and we can drop one template tool kit <RalfG> mh, I see both points, if it is for missing features (search?) I am sure we can find a way. <sepski> i think we are way beyond the age of 1 cd to rule them all age anyway, there is so many things on cd2 that's needed now that the time we spend tuning and arguing couls be used to implement a sane 1cd+net/dualcd solution <finnarne> But the most important thing, for this comparision to be usefull, is that cipux must be automaticly installed from the CD. <RalfG> What I like with cipux is its openess by a command line api. I can drag in users from one group into another, easily on CL <k4x> finnarne: right <C14r> (It is up to you listeners to say someting positive) <h01ger> RalfG, add it to http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/AdminToolForEtch :) <k4x> finnarne: how many people are coding on lwat? <RalfG> h01ger: I will when sumarizing <h01ger> :) <jever> /me added content there in the meantime ;-) <pere> finnarne: that point is a very important one. we need a tool that works out of the box after installation, and with packages in debian/main. only one of the options seem to have that at the moment. <luk> AFAIK they use 2 CDs in France already (C14r: don't know if this is something positive) <finnarne> k4x: 3-4 for the moment <k4x> finnarne: tnx <pere> and this issue has been stressed for 1.5 year now, and cipux is still missing those important features. <h01ger> luk, afaik this is true for the sarge version. i dont think (but dunno, really) this is true for the etch version <C14r> luk: so you se atomatic install is possible <finnarne> k4x: but I run the development on a rather stright management <finnarne> k4x: the development is based on different tools used the last 3-4 years in Skolelinux <k4x> finnarne: afaik winni, steffen and you? who else? <RalfG> I think there is a difference between "work just after apt-get install" and "work with installation" * h01ger tries to bring the topic "how+when will we decide" back to topic :) we only have 25min left for the whole meeting!! <C14r> ok, I winn CipUX is used since 2000! <finnarne> that is why the development is rather fast. * RalfG thinks so because his last try to install etch failed <pere> luk: of the french want their two-CD option in the default installer like we discussed in germany a long time ago, I am all for adding a 'extra-cd' boot option like the 'debian-edu-expert' option. <h01ger> pere, how difficult do you think will that extra cd-boot option be? linex needs gnome... <pere> h01ger: 20 lines of shell-scripting in debian-edu-install. <finnarne> k4x: I have some people internally which I'm colocated with. <C14r> We need a extra CD if CipUX is not on the first one ... <pere> h01ger: the problem is with documentation, support and logistics. :) <RalfG> C14r: if this is only 20 lines <h01ger> pere, which documentation? <RalfG> pere: do you think, cipux is harder to teach? <h01ger> ...+testing :) <C14r> pere: happy to announce the CipUX documentation project <pere> RalfG: no idea, but having two systems to document will be more work. :) <sepski> pere, not a choise after the profile selection ? eg 2cd / 1cd + net / 1cd (barebone profile only) <C14r> Jever (Juergen Leibner) can not take, part at the meeting tonight at <C14r> 2007-03-15 at 19.30 UTC (probably 20:30h CET) at # debian-edu, but <C14r> he is happy to announce, that the CipUX Documentation Project Site is <C14r> online now, and we invite you to document and translate the user <C14r> interface CAT in a first small guide, called CatWalk. This guide <C14r> will make the first steps easy for the admin or teacher. It is <pere> h01ger: the documentation for the use of skolelinux, I mean. <C14r> planned that this guide should fit into 9 pages. First translaters <C14r> ask already to complete the multiligual guide. URL: http://doc.cipux.org * finnarne wants feedback on the lwat documentation availible from http://bzz.no/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/lwat/doc/index.html <RalfG> screenshots? <pere> h01ger: of course, if those providing the second CD take care of documenting its content, the work will be limited to them. <h01ger> pere, right. but i prefer a standard debian-edu 2nd cd over a german 2nd cd and another french 2nd cd and a third hebrew 2nd cd and a linex 2nd cd <finnarne> RalfG: of the lwat documentation ? <pere> (of couse, we can also provide an semi-official second CD with everything that didn't fit on cd 1) <pere> h01ger: yeah. <sepski> h01ger, now if only we could aggregate those groups needs and get those packages on the second cd <h01ger> pere, as said, i think we should :) <RalfG> finnarne: both <pere> h01ger: well, technically we already do, for the test builds. <sepski> h01ger, pere i think we should too. <finnarne> RalfG: both what ? <h01ger> sepski, we need the infrastructure for a 2nd cd first. pere, right, /me scratches head, we build 2cds already :) <pere> h01ger: of course, it isn't activated or used during the installation. :) <h01ger> ah <h01ger> suuuuuuper :-( <h01ger> :) <finnarne> RalfG: you dont need screenshots of te lwat documentation <pere> h01ger: and that is the 20 lines of shell code. :) <RalfG> finnarne: in both cases, we need screenshots to document the admin tool <finnarne> RalfG: Just read it ? <RalfG> yes <h01ger> yayaya. next topic? :-D <h01ger> though the question, when+how to decide has not really been answered <RalfG> we could also publish two versions of prereleases and have a user vote for it <sepski> h01ger, yes please :) we need the comparison chart to decide. <RalfG> h01ger: but we can try to make a roadmap <RalfG> then we fix the dates <RalfG> even later <pere> sepski: the first two check points are only filled for one of them: ( ) in debian/main, ( ) can work out of the box after the installation. <RalfG> e.g: step 1: comparism table <h01ger> step 1 should be ready within the next 7 days <RalfG> pere: what are the deadlines for that? C14r isn't cipux in debian? <h01ger> jever, "Documentation for CipUX will be found at [WWW] http://doc.cipux.org" -> we dont care about the future. we need facts about today. :-D <h01ger> (re: that wiki page= <h01ger> ) * pere hope someone with experience administrating users in schools can decide which tool to pick. I can pick one if no-one else is able to. * RalfG asks about a test server with lwat on it? <h01ger> RalfG, cipux isnt in debian <pere> RalfG: why do you want a deadline? we have tried deadlines for getting cipux in debian before, without any change. <h01ger> ok, i think we need to discuss the when+how question at the next meeting again... next point? <C14r> pere: yes that didi work <h01ger> and nods to pere. atm lwat is on the first cd because cipux is still not ready <C14r> s/didi/din't/ <RalfG> C14r: what were the blockers? * h01ger has changed the topic to: 1.1 cipux - User administration tool | agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting | add topics please <RalfG> how far away are we from the 1st prerelease? <h01ger> please lets keep this topic short * winnie is now also here <h01ger> RalfG, cipux? or -edu? at -edu we had two already :) * winnie == Patrick winnertz <C14r> I can paste Xavier comment <C14r> XAVIER: <C14r> We made a cipux upload on the debian-edu server some days ago, but some things was <C14r> wrong and then we get rejected. So we made a small table with what need to be <C14r> done , head CipUX Debian Package. It's not that much to do, to get all these <C14r> things working so it will not take that much time. Im very busy right now but I <C14r> hope we will have a new verison to upload in two weeks. Otherwise, if DDs would <C14r> like to help us to fix these small things feel free to ask an svn account on the <pere> every time I tried to look at the CD for making a new release, it was broken due to the d-i transition. <C14r> cipux-devel list.. If you have ideas, questions or find other missing/wrong <C14r> stuffs, Lior Kaplan(kaplan), Xavier Oswald(oskar64) and Christian Kuelker(C14r) <C14r> are working on this part. <C14r>  http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/CipUX/ToDo <C14r>  http://sympa.cipworx.org/wws/subscribe/cipux-devel * h01ger would like to keep the topic points 1.1 cipux and 1.2 lwat short and try to finish at 20.30 UTC. we have one more topic: 2. status of etch cd (and 3. next meeting) * klausade is reading <h01ger> C14r, how old is that statement? <C14r> yesterday or the day before <C14r> I can not do the DD stuff <RalfG> C14r: but this regards the debian-edu server (not debian/main) <C14r> So if there is someone who can help, please join <C14r> RalfG: yes * h01ger has no single minute left in march.. <h01ger> next point? <C14r> (1) Works in Progress: <C14r> Benedikt: Netgroups, Internetadmin Implementation <C14r> Martin: Edubuntu, Examadmin Concept <C14r> Kurt: Coordination <C14r> Xavier: Package, Debian Testing <C14r> Georg: Scripts <C14r> Lior: Package <C14r> Robert: Deploy Concept <C14r> Roland: Documentation <C14r> Jever: Documentation, Demo Site <C14r> Other: Templates, Styles, Translation <C14r> (2) CipUX Package: Installs on Debian, Installs on Debian-Edu (See Xaviers report for status) <C14r> (3) CAT (user admin tool) basic functions are ported: useradmin, groupadmin, tutoradmin, roleadmin, skeladmin. "import" is under testing, netgroups is under work. missing: <finnarne> C14r: pastebin, please <C14r> internetadmin, cipuxadmin. no decision about portage: transferadmin, examandmin, <C14r> (4) new mailinglist http://sympa.cipworx.org/wws/subscribe/cipux-devel <C14r> any comments? <sepski> C14r, your lucky we dont have a flood kick bot :) <C14r> ok I will reduce this <h01ger> ok. i see the cipux project is well organized and we can move on to the next point? <h01ger> or is there anything to discuss here? <luk> h01ger: everyone is waiting for you to change topic :-) * h01ger has changed the topic to: 1.2 lwat - User administration tool | agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting | add topics please <RalfG> I just want to add that I am using cipux for 1/2 year now and very content ... <RalfG> but this doesn't put it into debian... * h01ger would like to keep this topic short as well and try to finish at 20.30 UTC. we have one more topic: 2. status of etch cd (and 3. next meeting) <finnarne> h01ger: next topic <RalfG> finnarne: URL for screenies? * h01ger has changed the topic to: 2. status of etch | agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting | add topics please <h01ger> RalfG, linked on the lwat webpage <RalfG> sry * h01ger has changed the topic to: 2. status of etch cd | agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting | add topics please <finnarne> RalfG: old ones :( <sepski> etch-test is working, etch needs a update from the d-i transistions <winnie> RalfG: install it ;-) <h01ger> winnie, update them ;-) <winnie> sepski: at the last cd lwat was not installed, since of an missing dependency <sepski> installer askes 2 uneeded questions ill look at them in the weekend <finnarne> sepski: also etch-cd also needs an updated version of lwat <h01ger> sepski, why does etch need the update or, asked differently, doesnt that happen automatically? <sepski> h01ger, this is what i had hoped white was here to answer... * finnarne goes back to coding automount information in lwat ... <RalfG> any confirmation for http://bugs.skolelinux.no/show_bug.cgi?id=1129 ? <finnarne> sepski: white is sleeping <sepski> finnarne, our ftpmasters can handle that ? <RalfG> so next meeting at tea time? <h01ger> finnarne, if you want to move lwat from etch-test to etch, you need to tell zobel, white, Werner or me <sepski> winnie, can we add it to the hint list ? <winnie> sepski: I should happen automatically <h01ger> finnarne, should i move lwat 0.13-1 to etch? <sepski> h01ger, no i _think_ etch-test uses daily built installer from debian. and i think etch-cd uses latest RC <finnarne> h01ger: yes please <h01ger> sepski, i'm not sure. amd64+ppc-etch-test used d-i from testing, until we changed that. dunno about i386-etch-test :) <h01ger> finnarne, ok, will do after the meeting <sepski> winnie, cd1 is full. things get pushed over the edge. happened now that i hinted -artwork onto the cd1 to get it to install again <winnie> sepski: but then lwat should be completly be removed and not only one of the dependencys... <sepski> winnie, perhaps since we build 2 cd's debian-cd dont think about it as gone. <winnie> mh... I think this should be added <h01ger> RalfG, re #1129 - did you try rc2 debian-installer? <winnie> it would be _very_ annoying for testing purposes to install everytime with 2 cds <finnarne> anything we could do with http://bzz.no/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/lwat/doc/index.html, to get rid of php5-cli as a lwat dependecy ? <finnarne> sorry, kid of OT, but it would help on the CD-space <finnarne> s/kid/kind/ <h01ger> rewrite it in perl? * h01ger runs <RalfG> h01ger: how? yet another cd? <C14r> :D <finnarne> h01ger: or remove the smarty-template <finnarne> hmm, the url came totally wrong :( <winnie> _how_ big is php5-cli ? <finnarne> it shoudl have been http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=407131 :) <finnarne> > 2MB <winnie> finnarne: sure? <sepski> 5MB uncompressed <h01ger> RalfG, no. try www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer and see if the same problem is there. if it is, file a bug in debian. <C14r> (it should be compressed on CD) <sepski> it is :) <winnie> 2340.2 <winnie> okay... :S <C14r> (0 min) <RalfG> sepski: uncompressed is not interesting. but we can still try to use another compression tool <h01ger> finnarne, btw, i think the asterisks in the url (/*checkout*/) look REAL strange <winnie> RalfG: sorry what? <h01ger> ok, anything left to the status of etch? * h01ger has changed the topic to: 3. next meeting | agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting | add topics please <sepski> h01ger, i was evil and added a agenda point <luk> sepski: it is still mentioned in the topic to add topics :-) <RalfG> sepski: but time is over ;) <h01ger> sepski, double evil for not telling the moderator :) <sepski> what can we replace webmin-slbackup with ? * h01ger has changed the topic to: 3. slbackup| agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting | add topics please <sepski> h01ger, i assumed the moderator checked the wiki :D <h01ger> sepski, aaaaaaaaaaaaah. with cipux and/or lwat of course! * h01ger hides <C14r> sepski: do you know how it works? <finnarne> slbackup ? <RalfG> what backend is C14r using for rollout (if implemented yet)? <RalfG> is this something to use for backup? <sepski> finnarne, the webmin frontend to backup and restore using rdiff-backup <C14r> RalfG: no that is customer choice <C14r> But skole has a mechinism for that <h01ger> sepski, thanks for the pointer and lets discuss this next meeting and/or after this meeting? :) <sepski> h01ger, ack <finnarne> sorry, the backup is the responsibility of the admin user, who should be able to use the command line :) <h01ger> C14r, we (need to) have a documented+default backup in the driftbook... <RalfG> finnarne: objecions <h01ger> finnarne, ^^ too :) <pere> finnarne: sure, but individual users might want to restore a file they removed by accident. <C14r> h01ger: ok * h01ger has changed the topic to: 4. next meeting | agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting | add topics please <RalfG> next week? Or in a fortnight? <h01ger> according to luks email, etch will be released on april 2nd. (i think he ment april 1st, but anyway). so we should meet more often and work more, to meet out goal of releasing soon after etch. so in two weeks? <winnie> h01ger: maybe next week? <RalfG> I opt for this month <h01ger> winnie, why? <RalfG> as we are getting more international, we should regard other time zones <pere> I doubt I can make it more often than every two weeks. <h01ger> winnie, meetings cost time <winnie> h01ger: to be faster with decisions * h01ger neither <winnie> okay thats true <h01ger> winnie, use the mailinglists <RalfG> every 10 days? d % 10 ==2 ? <h01ger> we "wasted" >10h in this meeting... <h01ger> 2007-03-29, 19.30 UTC? <RalfG> when is white going to bed? <C14r> h01ger: (still countig) <h01ger> RalfG, i believe staying on a certain day of the week is better <winnie> RalfG: late this night <RalfG> but our time? <h01ger> RalfG, he is +10, so 7:38 am for him *now* <finnarne> RalfG: today it was after 18:00 <finnarne> RalfG: normally ~14:00 CET <h01ger> for white to attend, we would either need to meet way later or way earlier <RalfG> so it would be easier for him to make it at 18h than getting up at 21h? <winnie> RalfG: i think it would be hard to have an meeting where he can attend, since then many of the european ones will be in their job or at the way home. <C14r> And whe he eat? <RalfG> ? * schasi (~firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #debian-edu <h01ger> ok, next meeting in two weeks, i'll send a mail and white (and anybody else) can suggest other dates via mail. ok? <winnie> RalfG: I mean: if the next meeting takes place to a time white can attend, maybe others will be at work <RalfG> okay, white needs a time buffer then <RalfG> maybe the round trip lag will compense for that <sepski> one might also update http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting/VoteForDate to get a clue of what dates/times are ok * h01ger has changed the topic to: next meeting 2007-03-29 at 19.30 UTC, agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting | debian-edu devel channel | test release 02 is out | test release 03 work in progress, download at ftp://ftp.skolelinux.no/cd-etch-test | please test the daily builds and coordinate the development | report your findings in http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Status/Etch <RalfG> thanks for your contributions, plz remind me for the sumary <h01ger> thank you all!