Mar 15 20:33:40 *       h01ger has changed the topic to: meeting about to begin, say hi | agenda at | add topics please
Mar 15 20:34:04 *       sepski = Ronny Aasen
Mar 15 20:34:04 <h01ger>        i'm happy if someone else moderates...
Mar 15 20:34:09 *       h01ger = Holger Levsen
Mar 15 20:34:23 *       k4x = Kurt Gramlich
Mar 15 20:34:31 *       C14r Christian Kuelker
Mar 15 20:34:34 *       luk = Luk Claes
Mar 15 20:34:35 *       binar ( has joined #debian-edu
Mar 15 20:34:45 <RalfG> RalfG = RalfGesellensetter
Mar 15 20:34:52 *       binar = Benedikt Wildenhain
Mar 15 20:35:03 <rft>   ***rft=Roland Teichert
Mar 15 20:35:12 *       finnarne = Finn-Arne Johansen
Mar 15 20:35:19 *       RalfG = RalfGesellensetter
Mar 15 20:35:26 <h01ger>        who moderates? who publishes log? who writes a summary?
Mar 15 20:36:40 <h01ger>        ok. i volunteer to moderate. so, who publishes log? who writes a summary?
Mar 15 20:36:41 <sepski>        i do log, i put myself on the wiki allready 
Mar 15 20:36:46 <h01ger>        \o/
Mar 15 20:36:59 <sepski>        i wont moderate since i might run a bit to and from 
Mar 15 20:37:41 <RalfG> if there is no sumarizer here, I will create a sumary based on the log this weekend.
Mar 15 20:37:43 <h01ger>        we dont have many topics anyway (hint, hint! see+edit - so we can discuss this until someone volunteers ;-))
Mar 15 20:38:25 <h01ger>        RalfG, \o/
Mar 15 20:38:52 <k4x>   \o/ means ?
Mar 15 20:38:58 <h01ger>        yay
Mar 15 20:39:02 <RalfG> lol
Mar 15 20:39:02 <h01ger>        both arms up, cheering
Mar 15 20:39:19 *       h01ger has changed the topic to: 1. User administration tool| agenda at | add topics please
Mar 15 20:39:24 *       h01ger has changed the topic to: 1. User administration tool | agenda at | add topics please
Mar 15 20:39:53 *       jever = Jürgen Leibner
Mar 15 20:40:09 <h01ger>        besides discussing the subtopics, cipux and lwat, i wonder how+when we will decide which of those tools will replace webmin for debian-edu
Mar 15 20:40:32 <h01ger>        because we also need to update our documentation (the driftbook) according to this...
Mar 15 20:40:36 <RalfG> is there an agenda for that decision?
Mar 15 20:40:45 <RalfG> is there an XOR for that?
Mar 15 20:40:49 <h01ger>        agenda as in criterias?
Mar 15 20:40:58 <sepski>        i think we need to have both available
Mar 15 20:41:12 <RalfG> maybe primary schools can stick to lwat and secondary schools use cipux?
Mar 15 20:41:13 <h01ger>        RalfG, space issues on the cd. i believe we cannot have both on the first cd. though the other tool can go on the 2nd cd and on the dvd
Mar 15 20:41:15 <sepski>        but witch is the default installed
Mar 15 20:41:41 <C14r>  h01ger: 640kb is a space issue, or is lwat so big?
Mar 15 20:41:59 <h01ger>        RalfG, at the moment we dont have seperate CDs for primary schools or universities
Mar 15 20:42:43 <RalfG> C14r: it's only 640kB? that's tiny
Mar 15 20:42:47 <C14r>  yes
Mar 15 20:42:51 <h01ger>        C14r, cipux and its depends are more then 640kb, or? and anyway, yes, even megabytes are issues..
Mar 15 20:43:02 <finnarne>      C14r: cipux drags in ~10 MB, lwat drags in ~8 MB
Mar 15 20:43:20 <k4x>   ;-)
Mar 15 20:43:22 <RalfG> okay, this is a clear statement, how about its intersection?
Mar 15 20:43:48 <C14r>  ok, we can look at the dependencies again
Mar 15 20:43:49 <sepski>        cipux require a ldap schema change 
Mar 15 20:43:56 <C14r>  no an add
Mar 15 20:43:57 <h01ger>        lwat doesnt?
Mar 15 20:43:59 <finnarne>      the biggest problem with cipux, is that it's not ready to be added on the CD, and are lacking a bunch of features
Mar 15 20:44:06 <sepski>        lwat works with the schema in skole
Mar 15 20:44:27 <finnarne>      lwat works out of the box, but the schema's could be simplified even more
Mar 15 20:44:48 <RalfG> "the schema in skole": what else is it used for to be out of change?
Mar 15 20:45:01 <finnarne>       ??
Mar 15 20:45:10 <h01ger>        finnarne, interesting. i heard lwat lacks features ;) so i would suggest we start a wiki page, to compare the tools, to be able to make a qualified decision
Mar 15 20:45:28 <k4x>   h01ger: good point
Mar 15 20:45:32 <finnarne>      Yes please. But I'm not the one to compare them. 
Mar 15 20:45:36 <RalfG> I suppose the point is that existing ldaps must persist, so the schema must be kept??
Mar 15 20:45:41 <h01ger>        RalfG, please rephrase the question
Mar 15 20:45:42 <h01ger>        ah
Mar 15 20:45:52 <h01ger>        k4x, willing to start such a page?
Mar 15 20:46:01 <h01ger>        s/willing/volunteering/ :)
Mar 15 20:46:03 <mherweg>       finnarne: which features are in lwat taht are missing in CipUX ?
Mar 15 20:46:10 <sepski>        RalfG, they must be migrated 
Mar 15 20:46:21 <finnarne>      you might start to look at the feature list at
Mar 15 20:46:36 <RalfG> sepski: anyway?
Mar 15 20:46:44 <sepski>        not with lwat
Mar 15 20:46:48 <sepski>        but with cipux 
Mar 15 20:47:08 <C14r>  you would like to have progress dont you?
Mar 15 20:47:16 <h01ger>        we need such a comparision wiki page...
Mar 15 20:47:25 <finnarne>      mherweg: searching for users (me wouldnt use cipux in an installation with 1500+ users)
Mar 15 20:47:31 <sepski>        but that's not the end of the world. it's doable. the question is do we want it to be the default ? 
Mar 15 20:47:45 *       RalfG uses cipux with 1600 users
Mar 15 20:48:07 <C14r>  I think only "Automount Information" is missing
Mar 15 20:48:13 <mherweg>       i also use cipux in a school with 1800 users
Mar 15 20:48:22 <sepski>        i dont see it as a  question of lwat OR cipux. but as a question of lwat (old ldap) or cipux (added ldap schema) as the defauly install
Mar 15 20:48:27 <finnarne>      mherweg: not the one I tested yesterday
Mar 15 20:48:46 <RalfG> but sepski has an important point: can we migrate from wlus to lwat|cipux on an existant ldap
Mar 15 20:48:47 <finnarne>      i strongly doubt that
Mar 15 20:49:07 <finnarne>      RalfG: for lwat, there is nothing to migrate, itæs plug and play
Mar 15 20:49:18 <C14r>  RalfG: yes Georg Damm is working on that
Mar 15 20:49:37 <finnarne>      but if you want to loos the Skolelinux specific things, you can do that as well. 
Mar 15 20:49:39 <C14r>  RalfG: you add an ldap schema
Mar 15 20:49:40 <RalfG> P'n'P has an ambiguous sound in my ears
Mar 15 20:49:56 <finnarne>      RalfG: Maybe you should have a look
Mar 15 20:50:08 <C14r>  finnarne: no, the skole things are there after migration
Mar 15 20:50:19 <sepski>        finnarne, will lwat add the slbackup features that allso will be missing with webmin ? 
Mar 15 20:50:41 <finnarne>      sepski: slbackup has nothing to do with  user administration
Mar 15 20:50:49 <RalfG> there are so many features I use with cipux that I am missing in lwat, and my users spread well over the alphabet, hence there are only few hundreds per letter
Mar 15 20:50:50 <finnarne>      nor anything with host administration
Mar 15 20:51:09 <sepski>        i know, but its a feature that we loose 
Mar 15 20:51:19 <finnarne>      RalfG: So you've tested lwat recently ? 
Mar 15 20:51:25 <jever> finnarne: so lwat is _only_ for user administration?
Mar 15 20:51:41 <C14r>  CipUX as no phiolosophical problems with that
Mar 15 20:51:43 <RalfG> finnarne: I tested it about 2 month ago
Mar 15 20:51:44 <finnarne>      it's and "Ldap Web Adminstration Tool"
Mar 15 20:52:05 <C14r>  yes a LDAP browser
Mar 15 20:52:23 <C14r>  that is why  it so easy installable ...
Mar 15 20:52:31 <RalfG> in my eyes, it could be a good solution to make both coexistant
Mar 15 20:52:44 <finnarne>      RalfG: I tested Cipux yesterday. And there has been quite some changes in lwat the last 2 months. 
Mar 15 20:53:00 <RalfG> there are further features in cipux like role administration and so on that should be usable as addons
Mar 15 20:53:02 <finnarne>      C14r: no, It's not an ldap-browser
Mar 15 20:53:24 <RalfG> finnarne: I see, does it have roles?
Mar 15 20:53:31 <finnarne>      Role administration is a redefinition of group administration. 
Mar 15 20:53:37 <RalfG> can I restore accounts from skel?
Mar 15 20:53:52 <finnarne>      ??
Mar 15 20:54:00 <C14r>  :)
Mar 15 20:54:03 <RalfG> repair user settings? handle quotas?
Mar 15 20:54:13 *       pere ( has joined #debian-edu
Mar 15 20:54:20 <finnarne>      No, Dont have the need for that. 
Mar 15 20:54:27 *       h01ger has created - its quite empty, please fill it :)
Mar 15 20:54:41 <finnarne>      but feature request are welcome
Mar 15 20:54:41 <RalfG> C14r: does the print quota work now?
Mar 15 20:54:53 <C14r>  RalfG: no, sorry
Mar 15 20:54:53 <mherweg>       but we have the need for that. can we vote democraticly ? ;-)
Mar 15 20:54:56 *       pere = Petter Reinholdtsen, sorry I am late.  just got back from another meeting.
Mar 15 20:55:06 <C14r>  (only in university of bielefeld)
Mar 15 20:55:21 <RalfG> I don't like "wars" between free products - but cooperation. Can we move one or another tool to use matching ldap schemes?
Mar 15 20:55:21 <h01ger>        pere, hi. we're discussing how+when we decide which adminstration tool will end up on the 1st cd.
Mar 15 20:55:37 <C14r>  mherweg: there some people who would like to implement that
Mar 15 20:55:37 *       schasi has quit (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
Mar 15 20:55:55 <h01ger>        that is, we havent discussed _this_ very much so far :-/
Mar 15 20:55:56 <sepski>        we can discuss this forever. the tools have different aproches, they have different feature sets. i think both will be atractive for different users. but witch as default ?
Mar 15 20:56:08 *       h01ger nods sepski 
Mar 15 20:56:44 *       h01ger would like to decide this "soon", so people can start on documenting this in the driftbook
Mar 15 20:56:50 <sepski>        the path of least resistance is ofcourse lwat, since it have most of the features we miss from wlus and reuire the least amount of work. 
Mar 15 20:57:04 <RalfG> does the build automation allow to have just two different CDs? Or make a user selection at install time?
Mar 15 20:57:14 <RalfG> though we want to reduce the amount of q
Mar 15 20:57:21 <h01ger>        q?
Mar 15 20:57:30 <finnarne>      I guess if you add the missing schema for cipux in the user templates you can add cipux user using lwat
Mar 15 20:57:36 <RalfG> questions
Mar 15 20:57:39 <sepski>        RalfG, we can have a user selection yes, 
Mar 15 20:58:03 <finnarne>      sorry /me got interrupted by a kid who should have been sleeping
Mar 15 20:58:17 <sepski>        finnarne, the 10MB for cipux and 8MB for lwat, is any of those the same dependencies ? how much would both cipux and lwat take 18MB ?
Mar 15 20:58:24 *       RalfG got interrupted by a cheese toast that should be eaten in kitchen
Mar 15 20:58:46 <C14r>  sepski: dont think so
Mar 15 20:58:46 <h01ger>        RalfG, in theory we could have different CDs. but this will lead to more confusion and the need of more documentation.
Mar 15 20:59:03 <RalfG> h01ger: doc is a good point
Mar 15 20:59:06 <k4x>   as i see, cipux is used in some school around here in germany
Mar 15 20:59:27 <RalfG> less features, less doc ;)
Mar 15 20:59:27 <finnarne>      I know that lwat pulls in ~8 MB on the CD, I have filed a bug against smarty-gettext, which could have med us loose another 2 MB (if I remember corretcly)
Mar 15 20:59:49 <finnarne>      sepski: Last night I intalled cipux, and it needed 10 MB downloaded stuff.
Mar 15 20:59:49 <RalfG> we could use a better compression tool......
Mar 15 20:59:51 <k4x>   as i see, more people are working on CipUX than on lwat ?
Mar 15 20:59:53 <finnarne>      Maybe some of the stuff are on the CD already, but I doubt that
Mar 15 21:00:17 <C14r>  mostly standard perl stuff
Mar 15 21:00:29 <C14r>  and we can drop one template tool kit
Mar 15 21:01:22 <RalfG> mh, I see both points, if it is for missing features (search?) I am sure we can find a way.
Mar 15 21:01:23 <sepski>        i think we are way beyond the age of 1 cd to rule them all age anyway, there is so many things on cd2 that's needed now that the time we spend tuning and arguing couls be used to implement a sane 1cd+net/dualcd solution
Mar 15 21:01:52 <finnarne>      But the most important thing, for this comparision to be usefull, is that cipux must be automaticly installed from the CD. 
Mar 15 21:01:52 <RalfG> What I like with cipux is its openess by a command line api. I can drag in users from one group into another, easily on CL
Mar 15 21:02:01 <k4x>   finnarne: right
Mar 15 21:02:07 <C14r>  (It is up to you listeners to say someting positive)
Mar 15 21:02:36 <h01ger>        RalfG, add it to :)
Mar 15 21:02:56 <k4x>   finnarne: how many people are coding on lwat?
Mar 15 21:03:01 <RalfG> h01ger: I will when sumarizing
Mar 15 21:03:06 <h01ger>        :)
Mar 15 21:03:07 <jever>  /me added content there in the meantime ;-)
Mar 15 21:03:09 <pere>  finnarne: that point is a very important one.  we need a tool that works out of the box after installation, and with packages in debian/main.  only one of the options seem to have that at the moment.
Mar 15 21:03:15 <luk>   AFAIK they use 2 CDs in France already (C14r: don't know if this is something positive)
Mar 15 21:03:15 <finnarne>      k4x: 3-4 for the moment
Mar 15 21:03:26 <k4x>   finnarne: tnx
Mar 15 21:04:00 <pere>  and this issue has been stressed for 1.5 year now, and cipux is still missing those important features.
Mar 15 21:04:01 <h01ger>        luk, afaik this is true for the sarge version. i dont think (but dunno, really) this is true for the etch version
Mar 15 21:04:01 <C14r>  luk: so you se atomatic install is possible
Mar 15 21:04:01 <finnarne>      k4x: but I run the development on a rather stright management
Mar 15 21:04:31 <finnarne>      k4x: the development is based on different tools used the last 3-4 years in Skolelinux
Mar 15 21:05:01 <k4x>   finnarne: afaik winni, steffen and you? who else?
Mar 15 21:05:01 <RalfG> I think there is a difference between "work just after apt-get install" and "work with installation"
Mar 15 21:05:01 *       h01ger tries to bring the topic "how+when will we decide" back to topic :) we only have 25min left for the whole meeting!!
Mar 15 21:05:01 <C14r>  ok, I winn CipUX is used since 2000!
Mar 15 21:05:01 <finnarne>      that is why the development is rather fast.
Mar 15 21:05:01 *       RalfG thinks so because his last try to install etch failed
Mar 15 21:05:08 <pere>  luk: of the french want their two-CD option in the default installer like we discussed in germany a long time ago, I am all for adding a 'extra-cd' boot option like the 'debian-edu-expert' option.
Mar 15 21:05:43 <h01ger>        pere, how difficult do you think will that extra cd-boot option be? linex needs gnome...
Mar 15 21:06:01 <pere>  h01ger: 20 lines of shell-scripting in debian-edu-install.
Mar 15 21:06:02 <finnarne>      k4x: I have some people internally which I'm colocated with. 
Mar 15 21:06:02 <C14r>  We need a extra CD if CipUX is not on the first one ...
Mar 15 21:06:26 <pere>  h01ger: the problem is with documentation, support and logistics.  :)
Mar 15 21:06:26 <RalfG> C14r: if this is only 20 lines
Mar 15 21:06:40 <h01ger>        pere, which documentation?
Mar 15 21:06:51 <RalfG> pere: do you think, cipux is harder to teach?
Mar 15 21:06:52 <h01ger>        ...+testing :)
Mar 15 21:06:53 <C14r>  pere: happy to announce the CipUX documentation project
Mar 15 21:07:12 <pere>  RalfG: no idea, but having two systems to document will be more work. :)
Mar 15 21:07:23 <sepski>        pere, not a choise after the profile selection ? eg   2cd / 1cd + net / 1cd (barebone profile only)
Mar 15 21:07:28 <C14r>  Jever (Juergen Leibner) can not take, part at the meeting tonight at
Mar 15 21:07:28 <C14r>  2007-03-15 at 19.30 UTC (probably  20:30h CET) at # debian-edu, but 
Mar 15 21:07:28 <C14r>  he is happy to announce, that the CipUX Documentation Project Site is 
Mar 15 21:07:28 <C14r>  online now, and we invite you to document and translate the user
Mar 15 21:07:28 <C14r>  interface CAT in a first small guide, called CatWalk. This guide
Mar 15 21:07:30 <C14r>  will make the first steps easy for the admin or teacher. It is 
Mar 15 21:07:31 <pere>  h01ger: the documentation for the use of skolelinux, I mean.
Mar 15 21:07:32 <C14r>  planned that this guide should fit into 9 pages. First translaters
Mar 15 21:07:35 <C14r>  ask already to complete the multiligual guide. URL: 
Mar 15 21:07:53 *       finnarne wants feedback on the lwat documentation availible from*checkout*/lwat/doc/index.html
Mar 15 21:08:19 <RalfG> screenshots?
Mar 15 21:08:21 <pere>  h01ger: of course, if those providing the second CD take care of documenting its content, the work will be limited to them.
Mar 15 21:08:34 <h01ger>        pere, right. but i prefer a standard debian-edu 2nd cd over a german 2nd cd and another french 2nd cd and a third hebrew 2nd cd and a linex 2nd cd
Mar 15 21:08:41 <finnarne>      RalfG: of the lwat documentation ? 
Mar 15 21:08:49 <pere>  (of couse, we can also provide an semi-official second CD with everything that didn't fit on cd 1)
Mar 15 21:08:59 <pere>  h01ger: yeah.
Mar 15 21:09:00 <sepski>        h01ger, now if only we could aggregate those groups needs and get those packages on the second cd
Mar 15 21:09:02 <h01ger>        pere, as said, i think we should :)
Mar 15 21:09:20 <RalfG> finnarne: both
Mar 15 21:09:20 <pere>  h01ger: well, technically we already do, for the test builds.
Mar 15 21:09:20 <sepski>        h01ger, pere i think we should too. 
Mar 15 21:09:24 <finnarne>      RalfG: both what ? 
Mar 15 21:09:35 <h01ger>        sepski, we need the infrastructure for a 2nd cd first. pere, right, /me scratches head, we build 2cds already :)
Mar 15 21:09:37 <pere>  h01ger: of course, it isn't activated or used during the installation. :)
Mar 15 21:09:42 <h01ger>        ah
Mar 15 21:09:48 <h01ger>        suuuuuuper :-(
Mar 15 21:09:50 <h01ger>        :)
Mar 15 21:09:50 <finnarne>      RalfG: you dont need screenshots of te lwat documentation
Mar 15 21:09:58 <pere>  h01ger: and that is the 20 lines of shell code. :)
Mar 15 21:10:04 <RalfG> finnarne: in both cases, we need screenshots to document the admin tool
Mar 15 21:10:04 <finnarne>      RalfG: Just read it ? 
Mar 15 21:10:06 <RalfG> yes
Mar 15 21:10:10 <h01ger>        yayaya. next topic? :-D
Mar 15 21:10:29 <h01ger>        though the question, when+how to decide has not really been answered
Mar 15 21:10:41 <RalfG> we could also publish two versions of prereleases and have a user vote for it
Mar 15 21:10:47 <sepski>        h01ger, yes please :) we need the comparison chart to decide. 
Mar 15 21:11:11 <RalfG> h01ger: but we can try to make a roadmap
Mar 15 21:11:15 <RalfG> then we fix the dates
Mar 15 21:11:23 <RalfG> even later
Mar 15 21:11:31 <pere>  sepski: the first two check points are only filled for one of them: ( ) in debian/main, ( ) can work out of the box after the installation.
Mar 15 21:11:35 <RalfG> e.g: step 1: comparism table
Mar 15 21:12:15 <h01ger>        step 1 should be ready within the next 7 days
Mar 15 21:12:39 <RalfG> pere: what are the deadlines for that? C14r isn't cipux in debian?
Mar 15 21:12:53 <h01ger>        jever, "Documentation for CipUX will be found at [WWW]" -> we dont care about the future. we need facts about today. :-D
Mar 15 21:12:57 <h01ger>        (re: that wiki page=
Mar 15 21:12:59 <h01ger>        )
Mar 15 21:13:07 *       pere hope someone with experience administrating users in schools can decide which tool to pick.  I can pick one if no-one else is able to.
Mar 15 21:13:30 *       RalfG asks about a test server with lwat on it?
Mar 15 21:13:31 <h01ger>        RalfG, cipux isnt in debian
Mar 15 21:14:06 <pere>  RalfG: why do you want a deadline?  we have tried deadlines for getting cipux in debian before, without any change.
Mar 15 21:14:09 <h01ger>        ok, i think we need to discuss the when+how question at the next meeting again... next point?
Mar 15 21:14:32 <C14r>  pere: yes that didi work
Mar 15 21:14:34 <h01ger>        and nods to pere. atm lwat is on the first cd because cipux is still not ready
Mar 15 21:14:43 <C14r>  s/didi/din't/
Mar 15 21:14:54 <RalfG> C14r: what were the blockers?
Mar 15 21:15:10 *       h01ger has changed the topic to: 1.1 cipux - User administration tool | agenda at | add topics please
Mar 15 21:15:15 <RalfG> how far away are we from the 1st prerelease?
Mar 15 21:15:16 <h01ger>        please lets keep this topic short
Mar 15 21:15:31 *       winnie is now also here
Mar 15 21:15:35 <h01ger>        RalfG, cipux? or -edu? at -edu we had two already :)
Mar 15 21:15:36 *       winnie == Patrick winnertz
Mar 15 21:15:38 <C14r>  I can paste Xavier comment
Mar 15 21:15:54 <C14r>  XAVIER:
Mar 15 21:15:54 <C14r>  We made a cipux upload on the debian-edu server some days ago, but some things was
Mar 15 21:15:57 <C14r>  wrong and then we get rejected. So we made a small table with what need to be
Mar 15 21:16:00 <C14r>  done [1], head CipUX Debian Package. It's not that much to do, to get all these
Mar 15 21:16:03 <C14r>  things working so it will not take that much time. Im very busy right now but I
Mar 15 21:16:07 <C14r>  hope we will have a new verison to upload in two weeks. Otherwise, if DDs would
Mar 15 21:16:10 <C14r>  like to help us to fix these small things feel free to ask an svn account on the
Mar 15 21:16:10 <pere>  every time I tried to look at the CD for making a new release, it was broken due to the d-i transition.
Mar 15 21:16:13 <C14r>  cipux-devel list.[2]. If you have ideas, questions or find other missing/wrong 
Mar 15 21:16:16 <C14r>  stuffs, Lior Kaplan(kaplan), Xavier Oswald(oskar64) and Christian Kuelker(C14r)
Mar 15 21:16:19 <C14r>  are working on this part. 
Mar 15 21:16:21 <C14r>  [1]
Mar 15 21:16:24 <C14r>  [2]
Mar 15 21:16:44 *       h01ger would like to keep the topic points 1.1 cipux and 1.2 lwat short and try to finish at 20.30 UTC. we have one more topic: 2. status of etch cd (and 3. next meeting)
Mar 15 21:16:59 *       klausade is reading
Mar 15 21:17:02 <h01ger>        C14r, how old is that statement?
Mar 15 21:17:15 <C14r>  yesterday or the day before
Mar 15 21:17:32 <C14r>  I can not do the DD stuff
Mar 15 21:17:49 <RalfG> C14r: but this regards the debian-edu server (not debian/main)
Mar 15 21:17:50 <C14r>  So if there is someone who can help, please join
Mar 15 21:18:03 <C14r>  RalfG: yes
Mar 15 21:18:12 *       h01ger has no single minute left in march..
Mar 15 21:18:23 <h01ger>        next point?
Mar 15 21:18:43 <C14r>  (1) Works in Progress:
Mar 15 21:18:44 <C14r>  Benedikt: Netgroups, Internetadmin Implementation
Mar 15 21:18:44 <C14r>  Martin:   Edubuntu, Examadmin Concept
Mar 15 21:18:44 <C14r>  Kurt:     Coordination
Mar 15 21:18:44 <C14r>  Xavier:   Package, Debian Testing
Mar 15 21:18:46 <C14r>  Georg:    Scripts
Mar 15 21:18:49 <C14r>  Lior:     Package
Mar 15 21:18:51 <C14r>  Robert:   Deploy Concept
Mar 15 21:18:54 <C14r>  Roland:   Documentation
Mar 15 21:18:57 <C14r>  Jever:    Documentation, Demo Site
Mar 15 21:18:59 <C14r>  Other:    Templates, Styles, Translation
Mar 15 21:19:01 <C14r>  (2) CipUX Package: Installs on Debian, Installs on Debian-Edu (See Xaviers report for status) 
Mar 15 21:19:04 <C14r>  (3) CAT (user admin tool) basic functions are ported: useradmin, groupadmin, tutoradmin, roleadmin, skeladmin. "import" is under testing, netgroups is under work. missing:
Mar 15 21:19:06 <finnarne>      C14r: pastebin, please
Mar 15 21:19:07 <C14r>  internetadmin, cipuxadmin. no decision about portage: transferadmin, examandmin, 
Mar 15 21:19:10 <C14r>  (4) new mailinglist
Mar 15 21:19:13 <C14r>  any comments?
Mar 15 21:19:17 <sepski>        C14r, your lucky we dont have a flood kick bot :)
Mar 15 21:19:29 <C14r>  ok I will reduce this
Mar 15 21:19:47 <h01ger>        ok. i see the cipux project is well organized and we can move on to the next point?
Mar 15 21:20:01 <h01ger>        or is there anything to discuss here?
Mar 15 21:20:14 <luk>   h01ger: everyone is waiting for you to change topic :-)
Mar 15 21:20:22 *       h01ger has changed the topic to: 1.2 lwat - User administration tool | agenda at | add topics please
Mar 15 21:20:30 <RalfG> I just want to add that I am using cipux for 1/2 year now and very content ...
Mar 15 21:20:40 <RalfG> but this doesn't put it into debian...
Mar 15 21:20:49 *       h01ger would like to keep this topic short as well and try to finish at 20.30 UTC. we have one more topic: 2. status of etch cd (and 3. next meeting)
Mar 15 21:20:59 <finnarne>      h01ger: next topic
Mar 15 21:21:07 <RalfG> finnarne: URL for screenies?
Mar 15 21:21:09 *       h01ger has changed the topic to: 2. status of etch | agenda at | add topics please
Mar 15 21:21:17 <h01ger>        RalfG, linked on the lwat webpage
Mar 15 21:21:22 <RalfG> sry
Mar 15 21:21:22 *       h01ger has changed the topic to: 2. status of etch cd | agenda at | add topics please
Mar 15 21:21:30 <finnarne>      RalfG: old ones :( 
Mar 15 21:21:43 <sepski>        etch-test is working, etch needs a update from the d-i transistions
Mar 15 21:21:49 <winnie>        RalfG: install it ;-)
Mar 15 21:21:58 <h01ger>        winnie, update them ;-)
Mar 15 21:22:06 <winnie>        sepski: at the last cd lwat was not installed, since of an missing dependency
Mar 15 21:22:07 <sepski>        installer askes 2 uneeded questions  ill look at them in the weekend
Mar 15 21:22:31 <finnarne>      sepski: also etch-cd also needs an updated version of lwat
Mar 15 21:22:35 <h01ger>        sepski, why does etch need the update or, asked differently, doesnt that happen automatically?
Mar 15 21:23:15 <sepski>        h01ger, this is what i had hoped white was here to answer...
Mar 15 21:23:22 *       finnarne goes back to coding automount information in lwat ...
Mar 15 21:23:39 <RalfG> any confirmation for ?
Mar 15 21:23:48 <finnarne>      sepski: white is sleeping
Mar 15 21:24:11 <sepski>        finnarne, our ftpmasters can handle that ? 
Mar 15 21:24:17 <RalfG> so next meeting at tea time?
Mar 15 21:24:19 <h01ger>        finnarne, if you want to move lwat from etch-test to etch, you need to tell zobel, white, Werner or me
Mar 15 21:24:27 <sepski>        winnie, can we add it to the hint list ? 
Mar 15 21:24:39 <winnie>        sepski: I should happen automatically
Mar 15 21:24:55 <h01ger>        finnarne, should i move lwat 0.13-1 to etch?
Mar 15 21:24:58 <sepski>        h01ger, no i _think_ etch-test uses daily built installer from debian. and i think etch-cd uses latest RC
Mar 15 21:25:02 <finnarne>      h01ger: yes please
Mar 15 21:25:45 <h01ger>        sepski, i'm not sure. amd64+ppc-etch-test used d-i from testing, until we changed that. dunno about i386-etch-test :)
Mar 15 21:25:53 <h01ger>        finnarne, ok, will do after the meeting
Mar 15 21:25:56 <sepski>        winnie, cd1 is full. things get pushed over the edge. happened now that i hinted -artwork onto the cd1 to get it to install again
Mar 15 21:26:26 <winnie>        sepski: but then lwat should be completly be removed and not only one of the dependencys... 
Mar 15 21:26:50 <sepski>        winnie, perhaps since we build 2 cd's debian-cd dont think about it as gone. 
Mar 15 21:27:07 <winnie>        mh... I think this should be added
Mar 15 21:27:14 <h01ger>        RalfG, re #1129 - did you try rc2 debian-installer? 
Mar 15 21:27:30 <winnie>        it would be _very_ annoying for testing purposes to install everytime with 2 cds
Mar 15 21:27:41 <finnarne>      anything we could do with*checkout*/lwat/doc/index.html, to get rid of php5-cli as a lwat dependecy ? 
Mar 15 21:28:11 <finnarne>      sorry, kid of OT, but it would help on the CD-space
Mar 15 21:28:21 <finnarne>      s/kid/kind/
Mar 15 21:28:41 <h01ger>        rewrite it in perl? 
Mar 15 21:28:43 *       h01ger runs
Mar 15 21:28:54 <RalfG> h01ger: how? yet another cd?
Mar 15 21:28:57 <C14r>  :D
Mar 15 21:29:24 <finnarne>      h01ger: or remove the smarty-template
Mar 15 21:29:49 <finnarne>      hmm, the url came totally wrong :( 
Mar 15 21:29:53 <winnie>        _how_ big is php5-cli ?
Mar 15 21:30:00 <finnarne>      it shoudl have been :) 
Mar 15 21:30:08 <finnarne>       > 2MB
Mar 15 21:30:17 <winnie>        finnarne: sure? 
Mar 15 21:30:25 <sepski>        5MB uncompressed
Mar 15 21:30:37 <h01ger>        RalfG, no. try and see if the same problem is there. if it is, file a bug in debian.
Mar 15 21:30:41 <C14r>  (it should be compressed on CD)
Mar 15 21:30:45 <sepski>        it is :)
Mar 15 21:30:51 <winnie>        2340.2
Mar 15 21:30:58 <winnie>        okay... :S
Mar 15 21:30:58 <C14r>  (0 min)
Mar 15 21:30:59 <RalfG> sepski: uncompressed is not interesting. but we can still try to use another compression tool 
Mar 15 21:31:07 <h01ger>        finnarne, btw, i think the asterisks in the url (/*checkout*/) look REAL strange
Mar 15 21:31:10 <winnie>        RalfG: sorry what?
Mar 15 21:31:20 <h01ger>        ok, anything left to the status of etch?
Mar 15 21:31:41 *       h01ger has changed the topic to: 3. next meeting | agenda at | add topics please
Mar 15 21:31:46 <sepski>        h01ger, i was evil and added a agenda point
Mar 15 21:32:11 <luk>   sepski: it is still mentioned in the topic to add topics :-)
Mar 15 21:32:17 <RalfG> sepski: but time is over ;)
Mar 15 21:32:18 <h01ger>        sepski, double evil for not telling the moderator :)
Mar 15 21:32:26 <sepski>        what can we replace webmin-slbackup with  ?
Mar 15 21:32:28 *       h01ger has changed the topic to: 3. slbackup| agenda at | add topics please
Mar 15 21:32:39 <sepski>        h01ger, i assumed the moderator checked the wiki :D
Mar 15 21:32:47 <h01ger>        sepski, aaaaaaaaaaaaah. with cipux and/or lwat of course! 
Mar 15 21:32:50 *       h01ger hides
Mar 15 21:32:56 <C14r>  sepski: do you know how it works?
Mar 15 21:33:11 <finnarne>      slbackup ? 
Mar 15 21:33:12 <RalfG> what backend is C14r using for rollout (if implemented yet)?
Mar 15 21:33:27 <RalfG> is this something to use for backup?
Mar 15 21:33:35 <sepski>        finnarne, the webmin frontend to backup and restore using rdiff-backup 
Mar 15 21:33:47 <C14r>  RalfG: no that is customer choice
Mar 15 21:34:04 <C14r>  But skole has a mechinism for that
Mar 15 21:34:09 <h01ger>        sepski, thanks for the pointer and lets discuss this next meeting and/or after this meeting? :)
Mar 15 21:34:13 <sepski>        h01ger, ack
Mar 15 21:34:18 <finnarne>      sorry, the backup is the responsibility of the admin user, who should be able to use the command line :) 
Mar 15 21:34:29 <h01ger>        C14r, we (need to) have a documented+default backup in the driftbook... 
Mar 15 21:34:37 <RalfG> finnarne: objecions
Mar 15 21:34:37 <h01ger>        finnarne, ^^ too :)
Mar 15 21:34:39 <pere>  finnarne: sure, but individual users might want to restore a file they removed by accident.
Mar 15 21:34:40 <C14r>  h01ger: ok
Mar 15 21:34:47 *       h01ger has changed the topic to: 4. next meeting | agenda at | add topics please
Mar 15 21:35:35 <RalfG> next week? Or in a fortnight?
Mar 15 21:35:40 <h01ger>        according to luks email, etch will be released on april 2nd. (i think he ment april 1st, but anyway). so we should meet more often and work more, to meet out goal of releasing soon after etch. so in two weeks?
Mar 15 21:36:04 <winnie>        h01ger: maybe next week?
Mar 15 21:36:12 <RalfG> I opt for this month
Mar 15 21:36:16 <h01ger>        winnie, why?
Mar 15 21:36:34 <RalfG> as we are getting more international, we should regard other time zones
Mar 15 21:36:42 <pere>  I doubt I can make it more often than every two weeks.
Mar 15 21:36:46 <h01ger>        winnie, meetings cost time
Mar 15 21:36:53 <winnie>        h01ger: to be faster with decisions
Mar 15 21:36:55 *       h01ger neither
Mar 15 21:36:59 <winnie>        okay thats true
Mar 15 21:37:00 <h01ger>        winnie, use the mailinglists
Mar 15 21:37:07 <RalfG> every 10 days? d % 10 ==2 ?
Mar 15 21:37:19 <h01ger>        we "wasted" >10h in this meeting...
Mar 15 21:37:38 <h01ger>        2007-03-29, 19.30 UTC?
Mar 15 21:37:53 <RalfG> when is white going to bed?
Mar 15 21:37:59 <C14r>  h01ger: (still countig)
Mar 15 21:38:00 <h01ger>        RalfG, i believe staying on a certain day of the week is better
Mar 15 21:38:10 <winnie>        RalfG: late this night
Mar 15 21:38:17 <RalfG> but our time?
Mar 15 21:38:22 <h01ger>        RalfG, he is +10, so 7:38 am for him *now*
Mar 15 21:38:24 <finnarne>      RalfG: today it was after 18:00
Mar 15 21:38:56 <finnarne>      RalfG: normally ~14:00 CET
Mar 15 21:39:01 <h01ger>        for white to attend, we would either need to meet way later or way earlier
Mar 15 21:39:05 <RalfG> so it would be easier for him to make it at 18h than getting up at 21h?
Mar 15 21:39:09 <winnie>        RalfG: i think it would be hard to have an meeting where he can attend, since then many of the european ones will be in their job or at the way home.
Mar 15 21:39:10 <C14r>  And whe he eat?
Mar 15 21:39:30 <RalfG> ?
Mar 15 21:39:33 *       schasi ( has joined #debian-edu
Mar 15 21:40:11 <h01ger>        ok, next meeting in two weeks, i'll send a mail and white (and anybody else) can suggest other dates via mail. ok?
Mar 15 21:40:18 <winnie>        RalfG: I mean: if the next meeting takes place to a time white can attend, maybe others will be at work
Mar 15 21:40:40 <RalfG> okay, white needs a time buffer then
Mar 15 21:41:03 <RalfG> maybe the round trip lag will compense for that
Mar 15 21:41:15 <sepski>        one might also update to get a clue of what dates/times are ok
Mar 15 21:41:15 *       h01ger has changed the topic to: next meeting 2007-03-29 at 19.30 UTC, agenda at | debian-edu devel channel | test release 02 is out | test release 03 work in progress, download at | please test the daily builds and coordinate the development | report your findings in
Mar 15 21:41:18 <RalfG> thanks for your contributions, plz remind me for the sumary
Mar 15 21:41:26 <h01ger>        thank you all!
Mar 15 21:42:28 <RalfG> bye, good night