<h01ger> meeting starts now <h01ger> does someone has the agenda? <h01ger> the wiki is up again! <h01ger> we need to finish at 21.30 cause then we will have a RL edu meeting here <C14r> RL? <kaplan> I'd like to save the cipux stuff for last, as we're having a status meeting tomorrow morning. <kaplan> C14r, Real Life. <h01ger> C14r, RL=real life - or do you mean url not found? <C14r> ok merci <kaplan> Please identify use /me. Thanks. * kaplan = Lior Kaplan * sepski = Ronny Aasen * C14r Christian Kuelker * winnie = Patrick winnertz * h01ger = Holger Levsen * jever = Jürgen Leibner * fdl (~fdl@ARennes-257-1-137-163.w86-210.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #debian-edu * kyrvin = Knut Yrvin <h01ger> fdl, hi :) we have an irc meeting now, agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting * owl_ is now known as owl <h01ger> topics are: <h01ger> Next meeting, and who will announce it. <h01ger> Cipux status <h01ger> lwat status <h01ger> CD status <h01ger> Language support, see [WWW] http://lists.debian.org/debian-edu/2007/02/msg00171.html <kaplan> I'd like to start with the language support. Objections ? * owl Wolfgang Drotschmann <h01ger> we need to finish at 21.30... * luk = Luk Claes * h01ger has changed the topic to: 1. Language support <Nik0> = Niko Lewman <h01ger> kaplan, please go ahead <fdl> h01ger: hi, just looking over your shoulders :) * h01ger has changed the topic to: 1. Language support http://lists.debian.org/debian-edu/2007/02/msg00171.html <kaplan> some short backgournd: * h01ger read the mail in topics <kaplan> Last year I've asked to add Hebrew to the CD, and I got an answer there's not enough space. <kaplan> Since than we want to support more and more languages... <h01ger> linex will also need spanish support. and gnome... <kaplan> As I mentioned on the mail to the list, there are several options (as I see it, feel free to add more): <kaplan> 1. Create regional CDs, which will support several languages on each CD. <kaplan> 2. Move to use a 2 CD base for the installation. <kaplan> 3. Limit the space on the CD regarding language support, and produce a <kaplan> CD for each language. (the size limitation is so the rest of the CD will <kaplan> contain the same packages.) <kaplan> that's it for the introduction. I'd like to hear opinions... <sepski> i know the cd distribution team have feelings on this issue, <kaplan> lets here their feelings... <winnie> I don't like the idea of reagional cds, this are for every supported language one cd... not that good <sepski> but it seams more and more clear that a single cd is not cutting it anymore. <kyrvin> sepski: I talked little about this with Holger. The way things could be done is to: * h01ger suggests to move to 2 cd as default and offer a dvd image with the same content. this will be for lenny (2009) and dvd should be common <kyrvin> 1. Make it possible to installe on CD with as much ass possible <kaplan> h0lger, can we use DVD for etch, and put language packages on it. <kyrvin> 2. Make a choice on the first CD to net-install the rest, use CD number two, or stop using CD's, and fix rest later <h01ger> kaplan, yes we can do that <h01ger> in fact, we should <h01ger> linex will be thankfull <h01ger> they want to deploy debian-edu in 2008 (which will be etch based...) <kaplan> sepski, what do you think about 2 CD set ? <sepski> how about 1cd english as much packages as possible, 1 dvd many languages,. and a netinstall cd with all languages <kaplan> sepski, fine with me. But I think other people will object. <bilbo_> how about 1 cd english, standard install, and 1 cd with language packs? <sepski> i dont have very strong feelings in this case. i apt-get what's needed afterwards anyway. <bilbo_> that way you have the choice of having the full functionality <kaplan> sepski, not all schools have internet... <bilbo_> plus the second cd that will contain lang packs (and scripts) to change the language <sepski> bilbo_, i think that's dificult to do in debian-cd <bilbo_> hmm, i see <h01ger> bilbo_, no. we need install in language of choice <winnie> h01ger: i think we should have an two cd based installation + dvd + netinst <C14r> Good preconfigured Apps with many language is the key feature for debian-edu, otherwise use debian <kaplan> C14r, the added value of debian-edu is the preconfiguration. The rest is the same as in Debian. <h01ger> kaplan, i think we can move on: we can improve the dvd (the dvd needs testing, hint, hint) *now* and the 2nd-cd question is for lenny anyway, so we have time to discuss. (which we dont have tonite, we need to finish the meeting in 40 minutes). and there is a workshop about this topic scheduled for debconf7 in june (and probably also for the developer gathering in march in norway) * h01ger nods C14r <C14r> kaplan: I did use the word preconfiguration <kaplan> h0lger, we now already have add-on CD. Shouldn't that be something official from the build system? <sepski> i think kyrvins suggestion might be a way to do the addon cd sanely <C14r> I would also suggest it to * ThierryForb (~thierry@AAmiens-156-1-94-112.w90-34.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #debian-edu <kaplan> so the conclude - we intend to move to a 2 CD set, and leave the details for future meetings? <h01ger> and improve the DVD now! <kaplan> comments before we move on? * h01ger has changed the topic to: 2. cd status <sepski> move on <h01ger> lets move on * h01ger wonders if finnarne is here for lwat status later.. <h01ger> so whats the cd status? <winnie> h01ger: me is here, for lwat status <h01ger> winnie, great :) +later :) <winnie> yes <sepski> h01ger, i just broke etch-test, am fixing it as soon as i understand what's going on with de.po * h01ger switched the powercd to use the daily d-i's - if this works (which i will know tomorrow), i'll switch i386 to that as well <h01ger> sepski, and we also have the strange issue that etch worked for you today/yesterday in vmware but not for owl - but then i guess its a problem in owls vmware * h01ger hands owl a i386 daily <h01ger> (a debian one, not -edu) <sepski> it's often sane to start on a fresh vmware instance, since i'v notices odd things happeneing in vmware's that's been reused a few times <kaplan> h0lger, the benefits of RL meetings (: <h01ger> anything else about the status? <owl> h01lger: Thanks a lot :-) <sepski> we must also decide on how the default install should be <sepski> skoel ldap + lwat, <sepski> or cipux ldap + cipux as admin tool <sepski> or both ? <h01ger> .oO( space issues ) <winnie> sepski: what is with italc-client? I read it on the status page * Bman^ (~andre@154.80-203-44.nextgentel.com) has joined #debian-edu <h01ger> atm cipux lacks a webgui, until this is resolved, i dont think its a question. (sorry C14r and cipux team). i also understand that we know from teachers that they prefer cipux and that lwat lacks features. <sepski> i think lwat needs to be included for the schools that install etch, but are not ready to migrate their ldap to cipux, <sepski> but do we want to use cipux for the future fresh installs ? <C14r> sepski: I think your are the only ony who see it both, so it is to early to decide <h01ger> winnie, should italc be its own topic? (then please add it to the agenda) <sepski> h01ger, i installed the webgui yesterday <winnie> h01ger: okay adding it <h01ger> C14r said it was not 100% ready, but it seems there is a team now working on finishing it <C14r> h01ger: ok <h01ger> but at the current status (and with 30min to go) i dont think we need to discuss this under "cd status" <h01ger> move on? or anything else to cd-status? <sepski> short status: cd been working fine for weeks, i just broke it. <sepski> :) <winnie> h01ger: italc added <h01ger> short status: bit progress on powerpc, amd64 testers needed <sepski> and dvd testers needed <winnie> sepski: I read something with the de.po? <sepski> winnie, yes we can perhaps talk after the meeting and move on <winnie> sepski: yes okay <h01ger> move on? <sepski> yes * h01ger has changed the topic to: 3. italc <h01ger> winnie? :) <winnie> yes, I want to ask what is with italc-client? <winnie> any problems? if yes I will have a look on it and fix it <winnie> or try to do so ;-) * h01ger has no idea but wonders if italc-client is on the first cd :) <winnie> I don't know whos included this on the status page <C14r> if the new version 1.x is working, it would be a killer application <sepski> h01ger, no, and italc-master is down on cd2 <h01ger> winnie, if its not broken anymore, update the status page <winnie> h01ger: italc should work.. I will be in chemnitz and meet the upstream author there <h01ger> winnie, if its not broken anymore, update the status page <winnie> and then we will try to modify it that it works out of the box with thin-clients <h01ger> C14r, we're in a freeze. cipux is an exception, as we *need* to replace webmin :) <sepski> cipux and lwat <C14r> I did not say to put italc anywhere <h01ger> you spoke about the next version, didnt you? anyway... <h01ger> next topic? <h01ger> 25min left... <C14r> there is a new italc version <winnie> C14r: I will update italc in debian when tobias released the 1.0 one <C14r> didnt he yesterday? <Nik0> italc in experimental works <C14r> ups no it was RC3 <winnie> Nik0: nice to hear * finnarne = Finn-Arne Johansen <winnie> I would suggest to move on to the next topic, I will look with tobias together on italc in order to make it work out of the box on thinclients <sepski> move on * h01ger has changed the topic to: 4. lwat <finnarne> it works <h01ger> does it have an enduser documentation? <finnarne> version 0.10 is just around the corner <winnie> h01ger: no not yet, I can try to write an small one in my free time in the next some weeks <h01ger> uh <h01ger> (great that you want to write documentation, but... :) <winnie> ... ? * sepski have tried lwat, i like it. and it works out of the box with the stock skole ldap <winnie> do you want to say that my english is quite awful <winnie> ? <h01ger> no <finnarne> we need some feedback to make any documentation <jever> finnarne: why does lwat not let you have a password which is not autogenerated? <h01ger> winnie, its sad that there is no documentation, thats "all" ;) <finnarne> because the tools is made with feedback from teachers <finnarne> and with the knowledge on how admins work <winnie> h01ger: ahh ... okay, but the other thing is also correct (sadly) <jever> ok, I missed that <finnarne> most debian-edu-admins (i mean in school) generate bad passwords <jever> yes <h01ger> most people generate bad passwords... <h01ger> so lwat works, cool! and its on the cd! now we "only" need documentation? <winnie> seems so... <jever> but shouldn't there be a way to have it created by your own? <winnie> and maybe we could write an skolelinux specific css file <finnarne> but klausade asked for it, and there will be possibility to set passwords when generating users, <h01ger> cool. next point? :-D <h01ger> winnie, probably, definitly yes <winnie> h01ger: okay, should I write an email with call for artists? <finnarne> jever: and you can also log in afterwards to change the password of a user, on https://tjener/lwat/chguserpw.php <h01ger> winnie, sure, why not? also with a call for doc-help.. <h01ger> winnie, please do (both calls) <jever> finnarne: is this new, I dont noriced this possibility yet <finnarne> I think there is 3 features that are needed before things will setle down with lwat <h01ger> .oO( no documentation ;) <finnarne> host/netgroup administration (included in 0.10) <finnarne> mass import of users <finnarne> and selfset password when createing user /resetting password <finnarne> h01ger: I think it was documented in the CHangelog :) <h01ger> finnarne, and you expect teachers to read changelogs? HAHA :) <h01ger> except Nik0 and other great teachers. there are some... but <Nik0> thank you :) <finnarne> No, I expect people who write the documentation to look through a package <h01ger> lets move on... only ten minutes left <finnarne> ok, <finnarne> bye * finnarne leaves for other duties <h01ger> finnarne, i expect a general admin tool in -edu to have documentation <h01ger> bye finnarne, thanks for coming by! * h01ger has changed the topic to: 5. cipux <C14r> kaplan: can you summarize on the package? (I was not there the last 2h) <C14r> regarding to sepski it installs on debian-edu, but I would like to see a log <C14r> luk, owl are working on to modules * owl nods <C14r> i will migrate 2 other at the weekend * luk nods too <h01ger> does cipux has documentation in english? <C14r> The documentation needs new seceenshots :) <C14r> no that is german <h01ger> uh :) <C14r> Well I can translate it <C14r> Or someone else. Should take 2 days or so. <h01ger> C14r, you should code! there are enough english speaking germans... :) <C14r> :) yes <h01ger> s/you should code/please work on the code/ :) <C14r> So i think the modules should be finished at the end of next week <h01ger> C14r, but can you please add "english documentation" to your projects todo-list?! :) <winnie> reffering to the statuspage there are some unresolved issues <C14r> h01ger: on alioth? <C14r> winnie: can you point us? <h01ger> C14r, i dont know where you keep your todo-lists :) <sepski> and someone must get cipux thu http://ftp.skolelinux.no/skolelinux/new.html <C14r> kaplan: and oskar64 are reviewing the package right now <winnie> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Status/Etch * h01ger hides. sepski i can+will look at it, but only after fosdem <h01ger> white_ is another someone :) <h01ger> he just enjoying summer in australia ;) <winnie> C14r: as far as i know the security review of the backend is missing <C14r> winnie: who did the other review? <winnie> C14r: sorry, what other review? <C14r> winnie: your sentence was suggesting that <winnie> I mean that there is nothing about a security review :) <C14r> Klaus Knopper did a review ow the RPC server <C14r> winnie: ok. I guess that not me should do that ;-) <h01ger> ok. anything else for the meeting or can we finish in time for our real-life meeting? :) <C14r> winnie: who do you suggest to do that? <C14r> h01ger: ok for me <jever> I expected yesterday evening a broken named as we see it last year after an upgrade <sepski> jever, i know what coused it. <sepski> and i belive i have fixed it in svn. <h01ger> winnie, if you know someone to do a security review, please draft him or her in :) <sepski> and i will upload to test the cd as soon as de.po is off my back <jever> fine, thank you, but can you shortly explain? * h01ger has changed the topic to: 6. Next meeting, when? and who will announce it? <h01ger> quick! :) <sepski> yes <h01ger> please lets solve the next meeting topic first, before you go into details... <sepski> when we install. cf.bind9 is failing becouse there is no /etc/default/bind9 <jever> ah, ok <sepski> but we symlink named.conf * h01ger suggests monday, 12th of march, 20 UTC <C14r> Next meeting in 2 weeks? <h01ger> sepski, jever, please wait a moment <sepski> so bind.postiins think we have a local config and writes a nondamaging defaults file <h01ger> sepski, jever, please wait a moment <h01ger> in 3 or in two weeks? <C14r> 12 is ok <jever> 2 weeks <sepski> i belive 12th is ok <h01ger> march 8th is in 2 weeks, 12th is 2.5 weeks.. so monday or thursday? <h01ger> we used to have mondays.. but i dont mind <h01ger> i'd say 12th (as to stay with the default) or someone needs to send a mail to the list... <winnie> the 12th is not so good <winnie> this is the day befor my exam <h01ger> winnie, so you write a mail to the list and ask for the 15th? ;) <h01ger> you can do this now, takes 2min :) <winnie> h01ger: okay :) <h01ger> cool! <h01ger> fin de meeting! :) * h01ger goes to smoke ;) * h01ger has changed the topic to: next meeting 2007-02-15 at 19.30 UTC, agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting | debian-edu devel channel | test release 02 is out | test release 03 work in progress, download at ftp://ftp.skolelinux.no/cd-etch-test | please test the daily builds and coordinate the development | report your findings in http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Status/Etch