<h01ger> meeting starts now
<h01ger> does someone has the agenda?
<h01ger> the wiki is up again!
<h01ger> we need to finish at 21.30 cause then we will have a RL edu meeting here
<C14r> RL?
<kaplan> I'd like to save the cipux stuff for last, as we're having a status meeting tomorrow morning.
<kaplan> C14r, Real Life.
<h01ger> C14r, RL=real life - or do you mean url not found?
<C14r> ok merci
<kaplan> Please identify use /me. Thanks.
* kaplan = Lior Kaplan
* sepski = Ronny Aasen
* C14r Christian Kuelker
* winnie = Patrick winnertz
* h01ger = Holger Levsen
* jever = Jürgen Leibner
* fdl (~fdl@ARennes-257-1-137-163.w86-210.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #debian-edu
* kyrvin = Knut Yrvin
<h01ger> fdl, hi :) we have an irc meeting now, agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting
* owl_ is now known as owl
<h01ger> topics are:
<h01ger> Next meeting, and who will announce it. 
<h01ger> Cipux status 
<h01ger> lwat status 
<h01ger> CD status 
<h01ger> Language support, see [WWW] http://lists.debian.org/debian-edu/2007/02/msg00171.html
<kaplan> I'd like to start with the language support. Objections ?
* owl Wolfgang Drotschmann
<h01ger> we need to finish at 21.30...
* luk = Luk Claes
* h01ger has changed the topic to: 1. Language support
<Nik0> = Niko Lewman
<h01ger> kaplan, please go ahead
<fdl> h01ger: hi, just looking over your shoulders  :)
* h01ger has changed the topic to: 1. Language support http://lists.debian.org/debian-edu/2007/02/msg00171.html
<kaplan> some short backgournd:
* h01ger read the mail in topics
<kaplan> Last year I've asked to add Hebrew to the CD, and I got an answer there's not enough space.
<kaplan> Since than we want to support more and more languages...
<h01ger> linex will also need spanish support. and gnome...
<kaplan> As I mentioned on the mail to the list, there are several options (as I see it, feel free to add more):
<kaplan> 1. Create regional CDs, which will support several languages on each CD.
<kaplan> 2. Move to use a 2 CD base for the installation.
<kaplan> 3. Limit the space on the CD regarding language support, and produce a
<kaplan> CD for each language. (the size limitation is so the rest of the CD will
<kaplan>  contain the same packages.)
<kaplan> that's it for the introduction. I'd like to hear opinions...
<sepski> i know the cd distribution team have feelings on this issue, 
<kaplan> lets here their feelings...
<winnie> I don't like the idea of reagional cds, this are for every supported language one cd... not that good
<sepski> but it seams more and more clear that a single cd is not cutting it anymore. 
<kyrvin> sepski: I talked little about this with Holger. The way things could be done is to: 
* h01ger suggests to move to 2 cd as default and offer a dvd image with the same content. this will be for lenny (2009) and dvd should be common
<kyrvin> 1. Make it possible to installe on CD with as much ass possible
<kaplan> h0lger, can we use DVD for etch, and put language packages on it.
<kyrvin> 2. Make a choice on the first CD to net-install the rest, use CD number two, or stop using CD's, and fix rest later
<h01ger> kaplan, yes we can do that
<h01ger> in fact, we should
<h01ger> linex will be thankfull
<h01ger> they want to deploy debian-edu in 2008 (which will be etch based...)
<kaplan> sepski, what do you think about 2 CD set ?
<sepski> how about  1cd english as much packages as possible, 1 dvd many languages,. and a netinstall cd with all languages 
<kaplan> sepski, fine with me. But I think other people will object.
<bilbo_> how about 1 cd english, standard install, and 1 cd with language packs?
<sepski> i dont have very strong feelings in this case. i apt-get what's needed afterwards anyway. 
<bilbo_> that way you have the choice of having the full functionality
<kaplan> sepski, not all schools have internet...
<bilbo_> plus the second cd that will contain lang packs (and scripts) to change the language
<sepski> bilbo_, i think that's dificult to do in debian-cd
<bilbo_> hmm, i see
<h01ger> bilbo_, no. we need install in language of choice
<winnie> h01ger: i think we should have an two cd based installation +  dvd  + netinst
<C14r> Good preconfigured Apps with many language is the key feature for debian-edu, otherwise use debian
<kaplan> C14r, the added value of debian-edu is the preconfiguration. The rest is the same as in Debian.
<h01ger> kaplan, i think we can move on: we can improve the dvd (the dvd needs testing, hint, hint) *now* and the 2nd-cd question is for lenny anyway, so we have time to discuss. (which we dont have tonite, we need to finish the meeting in 40 minutes). and there is a workshop about this topic scheduled for debconf7 in june (and probably also for the developer gathering in march in norway)
* h01ger nods C14r 
<C14r> kaplan: I did use the word preconfiguration
<kaplan> h0lger, we now already have add-on CD. Shouldn't that be something official from the build system?
<sepski> i think kyrvins suggestion might be a way to do the addon cd sanely
<C14r> I would also suggest it to
* ThierryForb (~thierry@AAmiens-156-1-94-112.w90-34.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #debian-edu
<kaplan> so the conclude - we intend to move to a 2 CD set, and leave the details for future meetings?
<h01ger> and improve the DVD now!
<kaplan> comments before we move on?
* h01ger has changed the topic to: 2. cd status
<sepski> move on
<h01ger> lets move on
* h01ger wonders if finnarne is here for lwat status later..
<h01ger> so whats the cd status?
<winnie> h01ger: me is here, for lwat status
<h01ger> winnie, great :) +later :)
<winnie> yes
<sepski> h01ger, i just broke etch-test, am fixing it as soon as i understand what's going on with de.po
* h01ger switched the powercd to use the daily d-i's - if this  works (which i will know tomorrow), i'll switch i386 to that as well
<h01ger> sepski, and we also have the strange issue that etch worked for you today/yesterday in vmware but not for owl - but then i guess its a problem in owls vmware
* h01ger hands owl a i386 daily
<h01ger> (a debian one, not -edu)
<sepski> it's often sane to start on a fresh vmware instance, since i'v notices odd things happeneing in vmware's that's been reused a few times
<kaplan> h0lger, the benefits of RL meetings (:
<h01ger> anything else about the status?
<owl> h01lger: Thanks a lot :-)
<sepski> we must also decide on how the default install should be
<sepski> skoel ldap + lwat, 
<sepski> or cipux ldap + cipux as admin tool
<sepski> or both ? 
<h01ger> .oO( space issues )
<winnie> sepski: what is with italc-client? I read it on the status page
* Bman^ (~andre@154.80-203-44.nextgentel.com) has joined #debian-edu
<h01ger> atm cipux lacks a webgui, until this is resolved, i dont think its a question. (sorry C14r and cipux team). i also understand that we know from teachers that they prefer cipux and that lwat lacks features. 
<sepski> i think lwat needs to be included for the schools that install etch, but are not ready to migrate their ldap to cipux, 
<sepski> but do we want to use cipux for the future fresh installs ? 
<C14r> sepski: I think your are the only ony who see it both, so it is to early to decide
<h01ger> winnie, should italc be its own topic? (then please add it to the agenda)
<sepski> h01ger, i installed the webgui yesterday
<winnie> h01ger: okay adding it
<h01ger> C14r said it was not 100% ready, but it seems there is a team now working on finishing it
<C14r> h01ger: ok
<h01ger> but at the current status (and with 30min to go) i dont think we need to discuss this under "cd status"
<h01ger> move on? or anything else to cd-status?
<sepski> short status: cd been working fine for weeks, i just broke it. 
<sepski> :)
<winnie> h01ger: italc added
<h01ger> short status: bit progress on powerpc, amd64 testers needed
<sepski> and dvd testers needed
<winnie> sepski: I read something with the de.po?
<sepski> winnie, yes we can perhaps talk after the meeting and move on
<winnie> sepski: yes okay
<h01ger> move on?
<sepski> yes
* h01ger has changed the topic to: 3. italc 
<h01ger> winnie? :)
<winnie> yes, I want to ask what is with italc-client?
<winnie> any problems? if yes I will have a look on it and fix it
<winnie> or try to do so ;-)
* h01ger has no idea but wonders if italc-client is on the first cd :)
<winnie> I don't know whos included this on the status page
<C14r> if the new version 1.x is working, it would be a killer application
<sepski> h01ger, no, and italc-master is down on cd2
<h01ger> winnie, if its not broken anymore, update the status page
<winnie> h01ger: italc should work.. I will be in chemnitz and meet the upstream author there
<h01ger> winnie, if its not broken anymore, update the status page
<winnie> and then we will try to modify it that it works out of the box with thin-clients
<h01ger> C14r, we're in a freeze. cipux is an exception, as we *need* to replace webmin :)
<sepski> cipux and lwat
<C14r> I did not say to put italc anywhere
<h01ger> you spoke about the next version, didnt you? anyway...
<h01ger> next topic?
<h01ger> 25min left...
<C14r> there is a new italc version
<winnie> C14r: I will update italc in debian when tobias released the 1.0 one
<C14r> didnt he yesterday?
<Nik0> italc in experimental works
<C14r> ups no it was RC3
<winnie> Nik0: nice to hear
* finnarne = Finn-Arne Johansen 
<winnie> I would suggest to move on to the next topic, I will look with tobias together on italc in order to make it work out of the box on thinclients
<sepski> move on
* h01ger has changed the topic to: 4. lwat
<finnarne> it works
<h01ger> does it have an enduser documentation?
<finnarne> version 0.10 is just around the corner
<winnie> h01ger: no not yet, I can try to write an small one in my free time in the next some weeks
<h01ger> uh
<h01ger> (great that you want to write documentation, but... :)
<winnie> ... ?
* sepski have tried lwat, i like it. and it works out of the box with the stock skole ldap
<winnie> do you want to say that my english is quite awful
<winnie> ?
<h01ger> no
<finnarne> we need some feedback to make any documentation
<jever> finnarne: why does lwat not let you have a password which is not autogenerated?
<h01ger> winnie, its sad that there is no documentation, thats "all" ;)
<finnarne> because the tools is made with feedback from teachers
<finnarne> and with the knowledge on how admins work
<winnie> h01ger: ahh ... okay, but the other thing is also correct (sadly)
<jever> ok, I missed that
<finnarne> most debian-edu-admins (i mean in school) generate bad passwords
<jever> yes
<h01ger> most people generate bad passwords...
<h01ger> so lwat works, cool! and its on the cd! now we "only" need documentation?
<winnie> seems so...
<jever> but shouldn't there be a way to have it created by your own?
<winnie> and maybe we could write an skolelinux specific css file
<finnarne> but klausade asked for it, and there will be possibility to set passwords when generating users, 
<h01ger> cool. next point? :-D
<h01ger> winnie, probably, definitly yes
<winnie> h01ger: okay, should I write an email with call for artists?
<finnarne> jever: and you can also log in afterwards to change the password of a user, on https://tjener/lwat/chguserpw.php
<h01ger> winnie, sure, why not? also with a call for doc-help..
<h01ger> winnie, please do (both calls)
<jever> finnarne: is this new, I dont noriced this possibility yet
<finnarne> I think there is 3 features that are needed before things will setle down with lwat
<h01ger> .oO( no documentation ;)
<finnarne> host/netgroup administration (included in 0.10)
<finnarne> mass import of users
<finnarne> and selfset password when createing user /resetting password
<finnarne> h01ger: I think it was documented in the CHangelog :) 
<h01ger> finnarne, and you expect teachers to read changelogs? HAHA :)
<h01ger> except Nik0 and other great teachers. there are some... but
<Nik0> thank you :)
<finnarne> No, I expect people who write the documentation to look through a package
<h01ger> lets move on... only ten minutes left
<finnarne> ok, 
<finnarne> bye 
* finnarne leaves for other duties
<h01ger> finnarne, i expect a general admin tool in -edu to have documentation
<h01ger> bye finnarne, thanks for coming by!
* h01ger has changed the topic to: 5. cipux
<C14r> kaplan: can you summarize on the package? (I was not there the last 2h)
<C14r> regarding to sepski it installs on debian-edu, but I would like to see a log
<C14r> luk, owl are working on to modules
* owl nods
<C14r> i will migrate 2 other at the weekend
* luk nods too
<h01ger> does cipux has documentation in english?
<C14r> The documentation needs new seceenshots :)
<C14r> no that is german
<h01ger> uh :)
<C14r> Well I can translate it 
<C14r> Or someone else. Should take 2 days or so.
<h01ger> C14r, you should code! there are enough english speaking germans... :)
<C14r> :) yes
<h01ger> s/you should code/please work on the code/ :)
<C14r> So i think the modules should be finished at the end of next week
<h01ger> C14r, but can you please add "english documentation" to your projects todo-list?! :)
<winnie> reffering to the statuspage there are some unresolved issues
<C14r> h01ger: on alioth?
<C14r> winnie: can you point us?
<h01ger> C14r, i dont know where you keep your todo-lists :)
<sepski> and someone must get cipux  thu  http://ftp.skolelinux.no/skolelinux/new.html
<C14r> kaplan: and oskar64 are reviewing the package right now
<winnie> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Status/Etch
* h01ger hides. sepski i can+will look at it, but only after fosdem
<h01ger> white_ is another someone :)
<h01ger> he just enjoying summer in australia ;)
<winnie> C14r: as far as i know the security review of the backend is missing
<C14r> winnie: who did the other review?
<winnie> C14r: sorry, what other review?
<C14r> winnie: your sentence was suggesting that
<winnie> I mean that there is nothing about a security review :)
<C14r> Klaus Knopper did a review ow the RPC server
<C14r> winnie: ok. I guess that not me should do that ;-)
<h01ger> ok. anything else for the meeting or can we finish in time for our real-life meeting? :)
<C14r> winnie: who do you suggest to do that?
<C14r> h01ger: ok for me
<jever> I expected yesterday evening a broken named as we see it last year after an upgrade
<sepski> jever, i know what coused it. 
<sepski> and i belive i have fixed it in svn.
<h01ger> winnie, if you know someone to do a security review, please draft him or her in :)
<sepski> and i will upload to test the cd as soon as de.po is off my back
<jever> fine, thank you, but can you shortly explain?
* h01ger has changed the topic to: 6. Next meeting, when? and who will announce it?
<h01ger> quick! :)
<sepski> yes
<h01ger> please lets solve the next meeting topic first, before you go into details...
<sepski> when we install. cf.bind9 is failing becouse there is no /etc/default/bind9
<jever> ah, ok
<sepski> but we symlink named.conf 
* h01ger suggests monday, 12th of march, 20 UTC
<C14r> Next meeting in 2 weeks?
<h01ger> sepski, jever, please wait a moment
<sepski> so bind.postiins think we have a local config and writes a nondamaging defaults file
<h01ger> sepski, jever, please wait a moment
<h01ger> in 3 or in two weeks?
<C14r> 12 is ok
<jever> 2 weeks
<sepski> i belive 12th is ok
<h01ger> march 8th is in 2 weeks, 12th is 2.5 weeks.. so monday or thursday?
<h01ger> we used to have mondays.. but i dont mind
<h01ger> i'd say 12th (as to stay with the default) or someone needs to send a mail to the list...
<winnie> the 12th is not so good
<winnie> this is the day befor my exam
<h01ger> winnie, so you write a mail to the list and ask for the 15th? ;)
<h01ger> you can do this now, takes 2min :)
<winnie> h01ger: okay :)
<h01ger> cool!
<h01ger> fin de meeting! :)
* h01ger goes to smoke ;)
* h01ger has changed the topic to: next meeting 2007-02-15 at 19.30 UTC, agenda at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting | debian-edu devel channel | test release 02 is out | test release 03 work in progress, download at ftp://ftp.skolelinux.no/cd-etch-test | please test the daily builds and coordinate the development | report your findings in http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Status/Etch