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20:39 < white> anyone objections against a meeting in 3 weeks?
20:39 < white> anyone objections against a
meeting in 3 weeks?
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20:44 < pere> h01ger: I mean images. the boot "floppies" are images, not udebs.
20:45 < pere> h01ger: that is just how it work to make bootable CDs.

20:44 < pere> h01ger: I mean images. the
boot "floppies" are images, not udebs.

20:45 < pere> h01ger: that is just how it work
to make bootable CDs.
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20:46 < h01ger> pere, add it to wiki:Etch/Status :-)
20:46 < h01ger> pere, add it to Etch:Status :-)
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20:48 < pere> oh, that is running into too much details. just wanted to mention it.
20:48 <@Werner> should that be added to our page of issues?

20:48 < pere> oh, that is running into too much
details. just wanted to mention it.

20:48 <@Werner> should that be added to our
page of issues?
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20:49 < pere> any other issues. Please make sure the status page is uptodate with the most important stuff.
20:50 < pere> anyone want to say anything more about the status before we move on?
20:50 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: Meeting in progress - Topic: New test release? | agenda at <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>
20:50 < pere> a new test release is long overdue. I did the first, but have not been able to sit down long enough to do a second one.
20:51 < pere> at the moment the CD is quite good, so we could just copy it to skolelinux-cd/, write release notes and announce a new test release.
20:51 < pere> I would very much like more people having the skills and knowledge required to make test releases. any volunteers?
20:52 -!- luk [~luk@d54C482A2.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]


20:49 < pere> any other issues. Please make
sure the status page is uptodate with the most
important stuff.

20:50 < pere> anyone want to say anything more
about the status before we move on?

20:50 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu
to: Meeting in progress - Topic: New test
release? | agenda at

<http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>

20:50 < pere> a new test release is long
overdue. I did the first, but have not been
able to sit down long enough to do a second
one.

20:51 < pere> at the moment the CD is quite
good, so we could just copy it to
skolelinux-cd/, write release notes and
announce a new test release.


20:51 < pere> I would very much like more
people having the skills and knowledge required
to make test releases. any volunteers?

20:52 -!- luk
[~luk@d54C482A2.access.telenet.be] has quit
[Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:52 < white> depending on my other debian packages i need to finish for etch :)
20:52 < white> depending on my other debian
packages i need to finish for etch :)
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20:53 < pere> perhaps both luk and white can do it together, with me as a guide?
20:53 < pere> perhaps both luk and white can do
it together, with me as a guide?

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20:53 * h01ger is also interested but not this weekend. i'll review your documentation :-)
20:53 < pere> it is in prinsible three steps required: (1) copy the cd(s), (2) test the CD, (3) announce the cd with release notes.

20:53 * h01ger is also interested but not this
weekend. i'll review your documentation :-)

20:53 < pere> it is in prinsible three steps
required: (1) copy the cd(s), (2) test the CD,
(3) announce the cd with release notes.
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20:54 < jever> maybe I can participate and help too
20:54 < white> pere: no worries, luk and me will manage it
20:54 < pere> ok. poke me on IRC, and I'll answer all questions.

20:54 < jever> maybe I can participate and help
too

20:54 < white> pere: no worries, luk and me

will manage it

20:54 < pere> ok. poke me on IRC, and I'll
answer all questions.
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20:54 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: Meeting in progress - Topic: CipUX Status | agenda at <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>
20:54 -!- sapphire [~sapphire@SE400.PPPoE-1498.sa.bih.net.ba] has joined #debian-edu
20:54 < pere> to all newcomers, please announce your presense using /me = Full Name for the summary writer.
20:55 < h01ger> the perl-libs are in sid now, the cipux packages being prepared, the frontend-rewrite is coming but not done
20:56 < pere> is it possible to install it using preseeding and get a properly functioning installation?

20:54 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu
to: Meeting in progress - Topic: CipUX Status |
agenda at
<http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>

20:54 -!- sapphire
[~sapphire@SE400.PPPoE-1498.sa.bih.net.ba] has
joined #debian-edu

20:54 < pere> to all newcomers, please announce
your presense using /me = Full Name for the
summary writer.

20:55 < h01ger> the perl-libs are in sid now,
the cipux packages being prepared, the
frontend-rewrite is coming but not done

20:56 < pere> is it possible to install it
using preseeding and get a properly functioning
installation?
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20:56 < h01ger> (a second, me is typing something a bit longer)
20:57 -!- sapphire [~sapphire@SE400.PPPoE-1498.sa.bih.net.ba] has quit []
20:58 < h01ger> i would like to discuss our strategy a bit. i see it like this: sarge had webmin and its gone. this is a major regression we cannot live with, we need a replacement. the only replacement (which is in a reasonable state on the pure frontend (for teachers) side) is cipux (gosa, luma, phpldapadmin are just frameworks which need tweaking). and the code-quality seems to be better than webmin, even if its not real good. and we want to release soon. an
20:58 < h01ger> d people work on cipux. thats how i see the situation...
20:58 -!- sapphire [~sapphire@SE400.PPPoE-1498.sa.bih.net.ba] has joined #debian-edu
20:59 < h01ger> (even if i heard not so great things about the inner qualitiy of cipux. but maybe thats just hearsay and/or has improved. and i believe its better than webmin anyway. and we need something. repeat..)
20:59 < jever> I agree to h01ger, it could not better been said
20:59 < pere> h01ger: I agree. at the moment we seem to have only one serious contester, though I am not convinced cipux have the features we need. secure and automatically installable seem to be two weak features in cipux.
21:00 < pere> no-one seem willing to work on webmin++.
21:00 < white> what is that tool Gagatan was mentioning?
21:00 < pere> Gagatan has mentioned some ldap tools, but do not seem able to spend the time required to make it an alternative.

20:56 < h01ger> (a second, me is typing
something a bit longer)

20:57 -!- sapphire
[~sapphire@SE400.PPPoE-1498.sa.bih.net.ba] has
quit []

20:58 < h01ger> i would like to discuss our
strategy a bit. i see it like this: sarge had webmin and its gone. this is a major regression
we cannot live with, we need a replacement. the
only replacement (which is in a reasonable
state on the pure frontend (for teachers) side)
is cipux (gosa, luma, phpldapadmin are just
frameworks which need tweaking). and the
code-quality seems to be better than webmin,
even if its not real good. and we want to
release soon. an

20:58 < h01ger> d people work on cipux. thats
how i see the situation...

20:58 -!- sapphire
[~sapphire@SE400.PPPoE-1498.sa.bih.net.ba] has
joined #debian-edu

20:59 < h01ger> (even if i heard not so great things about the inner qualitiy of cipux. but
maybe thats just hearsay and/or has improved.
and i believe its better than webmin anyway.
and we need something. repeat..)

20:59 < jever> I agree to h01ger, it could not
better been said

20:59 < pere> h01ger: I agree. at the moment
we seem to have only one serious contester,
though I am not convinced cipux have the
features we need. secure and automatically
installable seem to be two weak features in
cipux.

21:00 < pere> no-one seem willing to work on
webmin++.

21:00 < white> what is that tool Gagatan was
mentioning?

21:00 < pere> Gagatan has mentioned some ldap
tools, but do not seem able to spend the time
required to make it an alternative.
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21:00 -!- sapphire [~sapphire@SE400.PPPoE-1498.sa.bih.net.ba] has quit []
21:01 < white> not sure if it has the things we want, but it is an awesome and my favourite ldap gui tool :)
21:01 < pere> h01ger is spending time to get an overview on the situation, and as far as I know he is the only one.

21:00 -!- sapphire
[~sapphire@SE400.PPPoE-1498.sa.bih.net.ba] has
quit []

21:01 < white> not sure if it has the things we
want, but it is an awesome and my favourite
ldap gui tool :)

21:01 < pere> h01ger is spending time to get an
overview on the situation, and as far as I know
he is the only one.
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21:01 < h01ger> white, do you have it ready configured with all the features teachers need (and the 1000 other stripped down/hidden)
21:01 < white> h01ger: which kind of features are we talking about?

21:01 < h01ger> white, do you have it ready
configured with all the features teachers need
(and the 1000 other stripped down/hidden)

21:01 < white> h01ger: which kind of features
are we talking about?
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21:01 < pere> one feature not mentioned so far is FEIDE compilence. It will be important for norwegian schools, I believe, and someone should work on it.
21:01 < white> are we willing to change the ldap scheme?
21:01 < pere> FEIDE is a common person ID framework used in norway.
21:02 < h01ger> cipux is used+promoted by ralf and kurt. and they seem to know what teachers need.
21:02 < white> h01ger: last time that was a
discussion point :(
21:02 < h01ger> pere, can you (or knut) send a mail to the list explaining FEIDE?
21:02 < white> h01ger: that doesn't answer my question :)
21:02 < pere> <URL: http://feide.no/ > is the norwegian web site.
21:03 < h01ger> white, hmm. i dont know if such a list exists.

21:01 < pere> one feature not mentioned so far
is FEIDE compilence. It will be important for
norwegian schools, I believe, and someone
should work on it.

21:01 < white> are we willing to change the
ldap scheme?

21:01 < pere> FEIDE is a common person ID
framework used in norway.

21:02 < h01ger> cipux is used+promoted by ralf
and kurt. and they seem to know what teachers
need.

21:02 < white> h01ger: last time that was a
discussion point :(

21:02 < h01ger> pere, can you (or knut) send a
mail to the list explaining FEIDE?

21:02 < white> h01ger: that doesn't answer my
question :)

21:02 < pere> <URL: http://feide.no/ > is the
norwegian web site.

21:03 < h01ger> white, hmm. i dont know if such
a list exists.
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21:03 < pere> I suspect it might be a good idea to involve the norwegian skolelinux company and Halvor Dahl.
21:03 < h01ger> otherwise its gets lost like the list white looks for :)

21:03 < pere> I suspect it might be a good idea
to involve the norwegian skolelinux company and
Halvor Dahl.

21:03 < h01ger> otherwise its gets lost like
the list white looks for :)

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21:04 < pere> dr3as_ might be a good person to ask for info on the schools need. he is working as an admin for the norwegian schools.
21:04 < h01ger> dr3as_ should then look at cipux :)

21:04 < pere> dr3as_ might be a good person to
ask for info on the schools need. he is working as an admin for the norwegian schools.

21:04 < h01ger> dr3as_ should then look at
cipux :)
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21:05 < pere> we discussed the needs for an user admin system earlier, and it was observed then that we need to make a decision soon to be able to get something ready for etch.
21:05 < pere> we discussed the needs for an
user admin system earlier, and it was observed
then that we need to make a decision soon to be
able to get something ready for etch.
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21:05 < white> can somebody comment on the ldap scheme and cipux?
21:05 < pere> I suggest we plan to make a decision in 3 weeks.
21:05 < h01ger> C14r, [-oskar-]: please provide cipux packages to download. source + binaries :)

21:05 < white> can somebody comment on the ldap
scheme and cipux?

21:05 < pere> I suggest we plan to make a
decision in 3 weeks.

21:05 < h01ger> C14r, [-oskar-]: please provide
cipux packages to download. source +
binaries :)
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21:06 < pere> to all newcomers, please announce your presense using /me = Full Name for the summary writer.
21:06 < h01ger> white, iirc the cipux instructions correctly, it needs some minor tweaking to the schema. but maybe [-oskar-] knows more?

21:06 < pere> to all newcomers, please announce
your presense using /me = Full Name for the
summary writer.

21:06 < h01ger> white, iirc the cipux
instructions correctly, it needs some minor
tweaking to the schema. but maybe [-oskar-]
knows more?
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21:06 < pere> three important features for the project we select is active development and someone in the debian-edu project willing to do the work to integrate it into our installation.
21:06 < white> i guess ldap scheme compatibility is important
21:07 < [-oskar-]> C14r: did you close the latest warnings ?
21:07 -!- luk_ [~luk@d54C482A2.access.telenet.be] has joined #debian-edu
21:07 < pere> (and debian packages in debian/mian, of course)
21:07 < [-oskar-]> h01ger: C14r whould write a schema script but I don't know the status
21:08 < h01ger> [-oskar-], afaik there is one already


21:06 < pere> three important features for the
project we select is active development and
someone in the debian-edu project willing to do
the work to integrate it into our installation.
21:06 < white> i guess ldap scheme
compatibility is important

21:07 < [-oskar-]> C14r: did you close the
latest warnings ?

21:07 -!- luk_
[~luk@d54C482A2.access.telenet.be] has joined
#debian-edu

21:07 < pere> (and debian packages in
debian/mian, of course)

21:07 < [-oskar-]> h01ger: C14r whould write a
schema script but I don't know the status

21:08 < h01ger> [-oskar-], afaik there is one
already
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21:09 < h01ger> include /etc/ldap/schema/cipux.schema
21:09 < h01ger> from http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/CipUX/Installation/3.2.12
21:09 < pere> ok. anyone want to comment more on the cipux status before we move on?
21:09 < pere> 20 minutes left and 6 topics to cover.
21:09 < h01ger> lets move on. C14r & [-oskar-] we want+need packages for etch :)

21:09 < h01ger>

include /etc/ldap/schema/cipux.schema
21:09 < h01ger> from
http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/CipUX/Installation/3.2.12

21:09 < pere> ok. anyone want to comment more
on the cipux status before we move on?

21:09 < pere> 20 minutes left and 6 topics to
cover.

21:09 < h01ger> lets move on. C14r & [-oskar-]
we want+need packages for etch :)
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21:09 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: Meeting in progress - Topic: amd64 port | agenda at <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>
21:10 < h01ger> pere, i liked your mail about "considerations" not blockers :) /me goes to reread it
21:10 < white> well before we start to discuss the porting stuff, do we have a buildd up and running?
21:10 < pere> I guess we should enforce that all agenda points need a person behind them.
21:10 -!- kaplan [~kaplan@85.65.219.129.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #debian-edu
21:10 < pere> to all newcomers, please announce your presense using /me = Full Name for the summary writer.
21:11 < pere> so, who placed the amd64 port on the agenda, and why?
21:11 < zobel> white: we have a buildd, fs is operating it IIRC
21:12 < h01ger> "Are there other positive factors than increased memory address space? The flip side of that is slower binaries as the programs become larger and more CPU cache space is spent on the programs. :/" - users want it (and more memory is really a good reason), and we would have an upgrade patch as daniel wrote, so i think these benefits weight more than the only real downside on our side, the bigger space needed
21:12 < white> well it also needs to be included into the build system
21:12 * h01ger put it on the agenda, to "solve it". i also believe, if we dont make the port now, users will keep asking for it :)
21:12 < white> and we know that we are still working on the ppc port
21:12 < pere> so, who got equipment to test the amd64 port? I do not.
21:12 -!- luk [~luk@d54C482A2.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:13 < white> and we do not have a release there so far, so is it wise to start a new port?
21:13 < h01ger> pere, that daniel offered to test it

21:09 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu
to: Meeting in progress - Topic: amd64 port |
agenda at
<http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>

21:10 < h01ger> pere, i liked your mail
about "considerations" not blockers :) /me goes
to reread it

21:10 < white> well before we start to discuss
the porting stuff, do we have a buildd up and
running?

21:10 < pere> I guess we should enforce that
all agenda points need a person behind them.

21:10 -!- kaplan
[~kaplan@85.65.219.129.dynamic.barak-online.net]

has joined #debian-edu
21:10 < pere> to all newcomers, please announce
your presense using /me = Full Name for the
summary writer.

21:11 < pere> so, who placed the amd64 port on
the agenda, and why?


21:11 < zobel> white: we have a buildd, fs is
operating it IIRC
21:12 < h01ger> "Are there other positive
factors than increased memory address space?

The flip side of that is slower binaries as the programs become larger and more CPU cache space
is spent on the programs. :/" - users want it
(and more memory is really a good reason), and
we would have an upgrade patch as daniel wrote,
so i think these benefits weight more than the

only real downside on our side, the bigger space needed

21:12 < white> well it also needs to be
included into the build system


21:12 * h01ger put it on the agenda, to "solve
it". i also believe, if we dont make the port
now, users will keep asking for it :)
21:12 < white> and we know that we are still

working on the ppc port

21:12 < pere> so, who got equipment to test the
amd64 port? I do not.

21:12 -!- luk
[~luk@d54C482A2.access.telenet.be] has quit
[Ping timeout: 480 seconds]

21:13 < white> and we do not have a release
there so far, so is it wise to start a new
port?

21:13 < h01ger> pere, that daniel offered to
test it
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21:13 < white> don't get me wrong, i am all for it
21:13 < luk_> I would love hw to test ppc and amd64 :-)

21:13 < white> don't get me wrong, i am all for
it

21:13 < luk_> I would love hw to test ppc and
amd64 :-)
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21:13 < h01ger> white, i think so. powerpc is mostly ready these days. aba has a small upload problem left.
21:13 < pere> well, I suggest we give it a go like the powerpc port, and at least get some test feedback on it.

21:13 < h01ger> white, i think so. powerpc is
mostly ready these days. aba has a small upload
problem left.

21:13 < pere> well, I suggest we give it a go
like the powerpc port, and at least get some
test feedback on it.
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21:14 < pere> (let me know how much more space is needed, so I can extend the partitions)
21:14 < jever> does the ppc stuff run on ibm prep

21:14 < pere> (let me know how much more space

is needed, so I can extend the partitions)

21:14 < jever> does the ppc stuff run on ibm
prep
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21:14 < pere> next topic is the ppc build, so lets wrap up the amd64 issue first.
21:14 < pere> next topic is the ppc build, so
lets wrap up the amd64 issue first.
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21:15 < h01ger> jever, not sure. i think its the wrong bootloader||kernel. (the cd is for newworld ppc and i'm pretty sure its not suited for prep)
21:15 < h01ger> jever, not sure. i think its
the wrong bootloader||kernel. (the cd is for
newworld ppc and i'm pretty sure its not suited
for prep)
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21:15 < h01ger> zobel, buildd+wanna buld for amd64
21:15 < h01ger> zobel, buildd+wanna buld for
amd64
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21:15 < zobel> w-b for amd64 was me, buildd is fs.
21:15 * luk is willing to work on script changes for adding more archs
21:16 < h01ger> zobel, can you work this out with fs?

21:15 < zobel> w-b for amd64 was me, buildd is
fs.

21:15 * luk is willing to work on script
changes for adding more archs

21:16 < h01ger> zobel, can you work this out
with fs?
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21:16 < h01ger> luk, yay! i'm happy to work with you on that :)
21:16 < pere> ok. luk work on the amd64 cd port.

21:16 < h01ger> luk, yay! i'm happy to work
with you on that :)


21:16 < pere> ok. luk work on the amd64 cd
port.
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21:16 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: Meeting in progress - Topic: powerpc buildd upload problems | agenda at <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>
21:17 < pere> who placed it on the agenda, and why?
21:17 < h01ger> i put this topic there. to put it positivly: powerpc buildd and archive status is mostly good except aba has upload problems, which Werner or someone else from drift need to resolve please. (see backlog on #edu-dak)

21:16 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: Meeting in progress - Topic: powerpc buildd
upload problems | agenda at
<http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>

21:17 < pere> who placed it on the agenda, and

why?

21:17 < h01ger> i put this topic there. to put
it positivly: powerpc buildd and archive status
is mostly good except aba has upload problems,
which Werner or someone else from drift need to
resolve please. (see backlog on #edu-dak)
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21:18 < zobel> h01ger: i am currently on this box and try to debug it.
21:18 * pere have no backlog. perhaps the problems should be mentioned in some email to drift@?

21:18 < zobel> h01ger: i am currently on this
box and try to debug it.

21:18 * pere have no backlog. perhaps the
problems should be mentioned in some email to drift@?
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21:19 < pere> zobel: right. I'v seen those myself, and solved it using retries.
21:19 < pere> zobel: right. I'v seen those
myself, and solved it using retries.
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21:19 < h01ger> but thats too much details for the meeting. drift@skolelinux.org?
21:19 < h01ger> but thats too much details for
the meeting. drift@skolelinux.org?
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21:19 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: Meeting in progress - Topic: first steps document for sarge and etch | agenda at <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>
21:19 < pere> 4 topics to go and 10 minutes left.
21:20 < h01ger> i put the topic there :) i gave a talk/workshop at a school last friday and http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Documentation/Presentations/G18 is the result. and i learned, that there is no easy "first steps in skolelinux" documentation

21:19 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu
to: Meeting in progress - Topic: first steps
document for sarge and etch | agenda at
<http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>

21:19 < pere> 4 topics to go and 10 minutes

left.

21:20 < h01ger> i put the topic there :) i gave a talk/workshop at a school last friday and
http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Documentation/Presentations/G18
is the result. and i learned, that there is no
easy "first steps in skolelinux" documentation

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21:21 < h01ger> the marketing material says "easy to setup" but its not true without documentation.
21:21 < h01ger> klausade helped me here on irc and after the meeting i found http://beheer.eduwijs.nl/skolelinux/skolelinuxtutor.pdf
21:21 < pere> I believe the people writing documentation in different languages need to coordinate their work, to avoid too much differences across languages.
21:21 < h01ger> yes. we should have a "master" document in english
21:22 < pere> the problem with the english master document is that several of the people writing docs prefer to work in norwegian/german/whatnot.
21:22 < jever> h01ger: I've a movie showing my little daughter teaching an adult to install skole
21:22 < h01ger> and as etch is not done yet, i thought i mention it now. its also part of testing instructions. what needs to be done, to get ldap+users+homes running and _testable_ :)
21:22 < white> pere: but everybody can speak english :)

21:21 < h01ger> the marketing material
says "easy to setup" but its not true without documentation.

21:21 < h01ger> klausade helped me here on irc
and after the meeting i found
http://beheer.eduwijs.nl/skolelinux/skolelinuxtutor.pdf


21:21 < pere> I believe the people writing documentation in different languages need to
coordinate their work, to avoid too much
differences across languages.

21:21 < h01ger> yes. we should have a "master"
document in english

21:22 < pere> the problem with the english
master document is that several of the people
writing docs prefer to work in
norwegian/german/whatnot.

21:22 < jever> h01ger: I've a movie showing my
little daughter teaching an adult to install
skole

21:22 < h01ger> and as etch is not done yet, i
thought i mention it now. its also part of
testing instructions. what needs to be done, to
get ldap+users+homes running and _testable_ :)

21:22 < white> pere: but everybody can speak
english :)

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21:23 < pere> sure, but we talk about writing documentation here. and if those writing docs prefer to do it in a non-english language, it is going to be written in an non-english language.
21:23 < pere> sure, but we talk about writing
documentation here. and if those writing docs
prefer to do it in a non-english language, it is going to be written in an non-english language.
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21:23 < pere> ok. anyone disagree that we need intro documentation?
21:24 < pere> if not, do we have a volunteer to work on it?

21:23 < pere> ok. anyone disagree that we need
intro documentation?

21:24 < pere> if not, do we have a volunteer to
work on it?
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21:24 < h01ger> they can write it it norwegian||german||foo first, if they translate it to english immediatly and commit at the same time *eg*
21:24 * h01ger will accompany the cipux installation and keep an eye on documentation, too

21:24 < h01ger> they can write it it
norwegian||german||foo first, if they translate
it to english immediatly and commit at the same
time *eg*


21:24 * h01ger will accompany the cipux
installation and keep an eye on documentation,
too
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21:25 < pere> h01ger: sure, but my experience with this project for 5 years is that it does not work like that.
21:25 < pere> h01ger: we tried with master document in docbook and .po files for translation, but the result was alternative documentation popped up everywhere else.
21:25 < [-oskar-]> h01ger: I think we will have cipux ready soon, in 2-3 days..

21:25 < pere> h01ger: sure, but my experience
with this project for 5 years is that it does
not work like that.


21:25 < pere> h01ger: we tried with master document in docbook and .po files for

translation, but the result was alternative
documentation popped up everywhere else.

21:25 < [-oskar-]> h01ger: I think we will have
cipux ready soon, in 2-3 days..
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21:25 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: Meeting in progress - Topic: EDUSOL, the Second On-line Encounter of Education and Free Software. | agenda at <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>
21:26 < h01ger> pere, yes. but you have most experience in this project when it was less international. using english, when not your native tongue, is a disadvantage. but being able to work together with many people can be an advantage

21:25 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu

to: Meeting in progress - Topic: EDUSOL, the Second On-line Encounter of Education and Free
Software. | agenda at
<http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>


21:26 < h01ger> pere, yes. but you have most
experience in this project when it was less
international. using english, when not your native tongue, is a disadvantage. but being
able to work together with many people can be
an advantage
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21:26 < pere> h01ger: I hope you are right, because we need consistent documentation.
21:26 -!- dwatson [~david@81-178-25-182.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #debian-edu
21:26 < h01ger> uff.. again me. EDUSOL is a online edu meeting gwolf pointed out to me and he asked if he should do live-translations...
21:26 < pere> who want to talk about EDUSOL? 3 minutes left.
21:27 < pere> are anyone going there from debian-edu?
21:28 < h01ger> lets move on. edusol is a spanish meeting on wednesday or thursday this week and gunnar offered to do live-translation. contact me if someone is interested. i think i'll write a short mail later, too
21:28 < pere> Personally, I believe we should do a better job advertising debian-edu. an article in Linux Journal, showing up at conferences to talk about it, spread the work to schools, perhaps have a support company in germany as well to sell support on it.

21:26 < pere> h01ger: I hope you are right,
because we need consistent documentation.

21:26 -!- dwatson
[~david@81-178-25-182.dsl.pipex.com] has joined

#debian-edu

21:26 < h01ger> uff.. again me. EDUSOL is a
online edu meeting gwolf pointed out to me and
he asked if he should do live-translations...

21:26 < pere> who want to talk about EDUSOL? 3
minutes left.

21:27 < pere> are anyone going there from
debian-edu?

21:28 < h01ger> lets move on. edusol is a
spanish meeting on wednesday or thursday this
week and gunnar offered to do live-translation.
contact me if someone is interested. i think i'll write a short mail later, too

21:28 < pere> Personally, I believe we should
do a better job advertising debian-edu. an
article in Linux Journal, showing up at
conferences to talk about it, spread the work to schools, perhaps have a support company in germany as well to sell support on it.
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21:29 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: Meeting in progress - Topic: Living together of Linux- and Windowsclients at the home shares (samba/nfs/console) and the need of configuring it right | agenda at <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>
21:29 -!- luk_ [~luk@d54C482A2.access.telenet.be] has joined #debian-edu

21:29 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu
to: Meeting in progress - Topic: Living together of Linux- and Windowsclients at the
home shares (samba/nfs/console) and the need of
configuring it right | agenda at
<http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>

21:29 -!- luk_
[~luk@d54C482A2.access.telenet.be] has joined
#debian-edu
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21:30 < jever> I think, when a user accesses a directory from a linuxmachine or from a windowsmaschine at school he must see the same filenames and content.
21:30 < jever> he has to get the same accesrights and ability to set them
21:30 < pere> jever: yes, that is the idea behind the inclusion of a samba server. does it not work?
21:31 < jever> I think it works, but you have to do it work for your own
21:31 < jever> it has to be configured while installation

21:30 < jever> I think, when a user accesses a
directory from a linuxmachine or from a
windowsmaschine at school he must see the same
filenames and content.

21:30 < jever> he has to get the same
accesrights and ability to set them

21:30 < pere> jever: yes, that is the idea
behind the inclusion of a samba server. does
it not work?

21:31 < jever> I think it works, but you have
to do it work for your own


21:31 < jever> it has to be configured while
installation
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21:32 < h01ger> jever, write a detailed wiki page with the needed steps, first (and as immediate help). then we can make it happen automatically at installation. or just file a bug :)
21:32 < pere> anyone know what is needed to get it working properly? I guess details about the problem with the current setup is needed.


21:32 < h01ger> jever, write a detailed wiki
page with the needed steps, first (and as immediate help). then we can make it happen
automatically at installation. or just file a
bug :)

21:32 < pere> anyone know what is needed to get

it working properly? I guess details about the problem with the current setup is needed.
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21:34 < white> it is just a start, but i thought i give it a go to add some desktop features, maybe to catch up with edubuntu and others :)
21:34 < white> it is just a start, but i
thought i give it a go to add some desktop
features, maybe to catch up with edubuntu and
others :)
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21:35 < white> it needs some testing, but i guess i can make it in time
21:35 <@Werner> jever: that was an example .. other *NIX'es over NFS will not work I guess...

21:35 < white> it needs some testing, but i
guess i can make it in time

21:35 <@Werner> jever: that was an example ..
other *NIX'es over NFS will not work I guess...
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21:35 < pere> white: this sounds interesting. we should get some schools to test it and let us know if it fit their need or should be adjuted.
21:35 -!- luk [~luk@d54C482A2.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:35 < white> pere: of course, i can't judge about it

21:35 < pere> white: this sounds interesting.
we should get some schools to test it and let
us know if it fit their need or should be
adjuted.

21:35 -!- luk
[~luk@d54C482A2.access.telenet.be] has quit
[Ping timeout: 480 seconds]

21:35 < white> pere: of course, i can't judge
about it
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21:35 * h01ger wonders about the skolelinux-bugtracking system in general. its one system for all bugs? cant/shouldnt we just use the debian-bts and a pseudo- or real package? (i guess its historic reasons..)
21:36 < white> and when i get it fully working for the first time i will call for testers

21:35 * h01ger wonders about the
skolelinux-bugtracking system in general. its
one system for all bugs? cant/shouldnt we just
use the debian-bts and a pseudo- or real
package? (i guess its historic reasons..)

21:36 < white> and when i get it fully working
for the first time i will call for testers
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21:36 < pere> h01ger: not all our packages are/where in debian. :)
21:36 < pere> h01ger: not all our packages
are/where in debian. :)
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21:36 < white> h01ger: there are also other reasons :)
21:36 < white> e.g. easier to use or system components in general

21:36 < white> h01ger: there are also other
reasons :)

21:36 < white> e.g. easier to use or system
components in general
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21:36 < pere> I recommend bts for the packages in debian.
21:36 < white> feel free to join me for testing or devel there :)
21:37 * pere need instructions on how to test it.
21:37 < pere> but I believe we should close the meeting here.

21:36 < pere> I recommend bts for the packages
in debian.

21:36 < white> feel free to join me for testing
or devel there :)

21:37 * pere need instructions on how to test
it.


21:37 < pere> but I believe we should close the
meeting here.
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21:37 < white> h01ger: that it is easier to use than the debian bts
21:38 * h01ger lols at http://bugs.skolelinux.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1064 from two and a half years ago... :)
21:38 < pere> Thank you all for joining this meeting. next meeting in three weeks. Please lets work together on IRC in the mean time. :)
21:38 < white> h01ger: and that the people are ready to put the bugs into the right categories

21:37 < white> h01ger: that it is easier to use
than the debian bts

21:38 * h01ger lols at
http://bugs.skolelinux.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1064
from two and a half years ago... :)

21:38 < pere> Thank you all for joining this
meeting. next meeting in three weeks. Please
lets work together on IRC in the mean time. :)

21:38 < white> h01ger: and that the people are
ready to put the bugs into the right categories

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21:38 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: Next meeting on December 11th, 19.30 UTC, see <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting> | test daily build for test02
21:38 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu

to: Next meeting on December 11th, 19.30 UTC,
see <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting> |
test daily build for test02
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20:30 < pere> so, time to start the meeting.

20:30 < pere> please indicate your presense using /me = Full name.

20:30 * jever = Jürgen Leibner

20:30 * pere = Petter Reinholdtsen

20:30 < white> hmm work first :)

20:30 * white = Steffen Joeris

20:31 * danielsan = Daniel Hess

20:31 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: Meeting in progress - Who write the meeting summary and post it to the list?

20:31 * h01ger = Holger Levsen

20:31 < pere> so, who can write the summary?

20:31 < luk> luk = Luk Claes

20:32 * luk = Luk Claes

20:32 < luk> sorry

20:32 * h01ger has no time to write the summary. sorry.

20:32 * Werner = Morten Werner Olsen

20:32 * andreas Andreas Tille

20:32 < pere> anyone got time to write the summary?

20:33 * zobel = Martin Zobel-Helas

20:33 < pere> we only have 60 minutes to cover 11 topics, and 3 minutes is already spent.

20:33 -!- h01ger changed the topic of #debian-edu to: Meeting in progress - Who write the meeting summary and post it to the list? | agenda at <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>

20:33 < h01ger> its nice to have the agenda in topic...

20:34 * luk will write the summary

20:34 < h01ger> luk! \o/ :)

20:35 < pere> thank you, luk. first topic is Dev-Camp in January in France. who want to say anything.

20:35 <@Werner> luk: tnx

20:35 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: Meeting in progress - Topic: Dev-Camp in January in France | agenda at <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>

20:35 < white> luk: cheers

20:36 < pere> we are very short on time. 55 minutes and 11 topis is 5 minutes per topic.

20:36 < luk> how is travel sponsoring going to be arranged?

20:36 * h01ger thinks its a great opportunity to get the different teams together and the same place and improve the level of cooperation :)

20:36 < h01ger> "Cetril (a non-profit organisation) will pay for housing, food and travel for developers. We currently plan for up to 30 europeans with cheap flights. Maybe we need to find additional funding."

20:36 < luk> is it asking styret?

20:36 < pere> who put the topic on the agenda? why?

20:36 * h01ger did - to make it known to people

20:37 < h01ger> it should probably discussed in detail - like the one luk mentioned - on the list

20:37 <@Werner> luk: I guess it's not styret this time .. but Cetril. But I guess that should be written on the webpages..

20:37 <@Werner> should we move on?

20:37 < pere> styret = board in engllish, btw.

20:37 < h01ger> or its styret and Cetril only gives the money

20:37 < luk> pere: yep, I figured

20:37 < h01ger> Werner, i would say so

20:37 * h01ger will write a short mail to the list

20:37 < luk> yep, move on

20:37 < pere> ok. next topic is Next meeting

20:38 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: Meeting in progress - Topic: Next meeting | agenda at <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>

20:38 < pere> when should we meet the next time. I put this topic early in the meeting as I suspect we will be unable to finish in 60 minutes with 11 topics to cover.

20:38 <@Werner> two or three weeks?

20:38 < white> 2 weeks should be more than sufficient

20:38 <@Werner> for me this time on a monday is great

20:39 < white> me too

20:39 * h01ger is also a bit better with later time

20:39 < pere> three weeks would suit me better, as I have problems setting aside an evening as often as eveyr 14 days.

20:39 < white> as far as i am in .de

20:39 < white> anyone objections against a meeting in 3 weeks?

20:40 < pere> 2006-12-11 it is, then.

20:40 < pere> same time as today?

20:40 * vagrantc_ = Vagrant Cascadian

20:40 < white> yes

20:40 < luk> I'll be in Spain, so no idea if I can make it, but maybe not so important :-)

20:40 <@Werner> yes, please.

20:40 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: Meeting in progress - Topic: Status of Etch | agenda at <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>

20:40 < jever> same time is ok

20:41 < pere> so, who want to say anything about the etch status as documented on <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Status/Etch >?

20:41 < luk> lets move on

20:42 < pere> I believe the blocker bug is fixed after the latest package updates for debian-edu/etch.

20:42 < pere> so everything should be ok to release test02.

20:42 * vagrantc_ would like feedback and testing of the latest ltsp packags (0.99debian8)

20:42 < h01ger> did anyone test etch-test since friday?

20:43 < h01ger> etch-test failed completly for me on thursday. it was not possible to complete the partioning step

20:43 < pere> h01ger: I tested it yesterday, installed fine and slapd worked after I fixed the cfengine etch detection rule.

20:43 <@Werner> are we up2date with the new installer?

20:43 < pere> Werner: not quite. we use the daily built d-i boot images, instead of the ones in etch.

20:43 < h01ger> ah nice. (i have two identical harddiscs in that machine... maybe...)

20:44 < pere> I tried switching to the etch images last week, but those were still beta3 and broken.

20:44 < pere> so I switched back, probably friday or saturday.

20:44 <@Werner> ok

20:44 < h01ger> pere, why images and not udebs?

20:44 < h01ger> or do you mean udebs?

20:44 < pere> h01ger: I mean images. the boot "floppies" are images, not udebs.

20:45 < pere> h01ger: that is just how it work to make bootable CDs.

20:45 < h01ger> ah. but thats just the initrd+kernel not the whole d-i?

20:46 < pere> I recommend everyone run "debian-edu-test-install > test.log && grep error: test.log" when they do test installations, to find the detected errors.

20:46 -!- luk_ [~luk@d54C482A2.access.telenet.be] has joined #debian-edu

20:46 < h01ger> pere, add it to Etch:Status :-)

20:46 < pere> h01ger: yes. the stuff being executed before the rest of the udebs are fetched from cd or the net.

20:47 * h01ger adds it to the wiki now

20:47 < pere> when I tested last time, several tests failed, but only the missing webmin and wrong ispell dictionary is a real bug.

20:47 < luk_> I hope someone else has the logs as I lost connection...

20:47 < pere> we need to come up with a solution for the spell checker issue, I just realised.

20:47 < white> luk: i am logging

20:47 <@Werner> luk_: I have..

20:48 < pere> we used to include ispell and myspell, but threw out ispell to save space. kde need to be configured to use myspell, if possible.

20:48 < pere> OOo can't use anything else, so aspell/ispell is not a option there.

20:48 < pere> oh, that is running into too much details. just wanted to mention it.

20:48 <@Werner> should that be added to our page of issues?

20:48 < pere> Werner: yes.

20:48 <@Werner> or is it there already?

20:49 < pere> any other issues. Please make sure the status page is uptodate with the most important stuff.

20:50 < pere> anyone want to say anything more about the status before we move on?

20:50 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: Meeting in progress - Topic: New test release? | agenda at

<http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>

20:50 < pere> a new test release is long overdue. I did the first, but have not been able to sit down long enough to do a second one.

20:51 < pere> at the moment the CD is quite good, so we could just copy it to skolelinux-cd/, write release notes and announce a new test release.

20:51 < pere> I would very much like more people having the skills and knowledge required to make test releases. any volunteers?

20:52 -!- luk [~luk@d54C482A2.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]

20:52 < white> i can do that during the weekend

20:52 -!- luk_ is now known as luk

20:52 < white> maybe earlier

20:52 < white> depending on my other debian packages i need to finish for etch :)

20:52 < luk> I'd love to learn to do that :-)

20:53 < pere> perhaps both luk and white can do it together, with me as a guide?

20:53 < luk> fine by me

20:53 < white> sure

20:53 * h01ger is also interested but not this weekend. i'll review your documentation :-)

20:53 < pere> it is in prinsible three steps required: (1) copy the cd(s), (2) test the CD, (3) announce the cd with release notes.

20:53 < luk> sounds very simple ;-)

20:54 < jever> maybe I can participate and help too

20:54 < white> pere: no worries, luk and me

will manage it

20:54 < pere> ok. poke me on IRC, and I'll answer all questions.

20:54 < white> and of course jever too

20:54 < pere> great!

20:54 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: Meeting in progress - Topic: CipUX Status | agenda at <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>

20:54 -!- sapphire [~sapphire@SE400.PPPoE-1498.sa.bih.net.ba] has joined #debian-edu

20:54 < pere> to all newcomers, please announce your presense using /me = Full Name for the summary writer.

20:55 < h01ger> the perl-libs are in sid now, the cipux packages being prepared, the frontend-rewrite is coming but not done

20:56 < pere> is it possible to install it using preseeding and get a properly functioning installation?

20:56 < h01ger> not yet.

20:56 < h01ger> thats why i want packages

20:56 < h01ger> (a second, me is typing something a bit longer)

20:57 -!- sapphire [~sapphire@SE400.PPPoE-1498.sa.bih.net.ba] has quit []

20:58 < h01ger> i would like to discuss our strategy a bit. i see it like this: sarge had webmin and its gone. this is a major regression we cannot live with, we need a replacement. the only replacement (which is in a reasonable state on the pure frontend (for teachers) side) is cipux (gosa, luma, phpldapadmin are just frameworks which need tweaking). and the code-quality seems to be better than webmin, even if its not real good. and we want to release soon. an

20:58 < h01ger> d people work on cipux. thats how i see the situation...

20:58 -!- sapphire [~sapphire@SE400.PPPoE-1498.sa.bih.net.ba] has joined #debian-edu

20:59 < h01ger> (even if i heard not so great things about the inner qualitiy of cipux. but maybe thats just hearsay and/or has improved. and i believe its better than webmin anyway. and we need something. repeat..)

20:59 < jever> I agree to h01ger, it could not better been said

20:59 < pere> h01ger: I agree. at the moment we seem to have only one serious contester, though I am not convinced cipux have the features we need. secure and automatically installable seem to be two weak features in cipux.

21:00 < pere> no-one seem willing to work on webmin++.

21:00 < white> what is that tool Gagatan was mentioning?

21:00 < pere> Gagatan has mentioned some ldap tools, but do not seem able to spend the time required to make it an alternative.

21:00 < h01ger> white, luma

21:00 < white> i used luma some time ago

21:00 -!- sapphire [~sapphire@SE400.PPPoE-1498.sa.bih.net.ba] has quit []

21:01 < white> not sure if it has the things we want, but it is an awesome and my favourite ldap gui tool :)

21:01 < pere> h01ger is spending time to get an overview on the situation, and as far as I know he is the only one.

21:01 < white> but i can't judge about it atm

21:01 < h01ger> white, do you have it ready configured with all the features teachers need (and the 1000 other stripped down/hidden)

21:01 < white> h01ger: which kind of features are we talking about?

21:01 < white> do you have a list?

21:01 < pere> one feature not mentioned so far is FEIDE compilence. It will be important for norwegian schools, I believe, and someone should work on it.

21:01 < white> are we willing to change the ldap scheme?

21:01 < pere> FEIDE is a common person ID framework used in norway.

21:02 < h01ger> cipux is used+promoted by ralf and kurt. and they seem to know what teachers need.

21:02 < white> h01ger: last time that was a discussion point :(

21:02 < h01ger> pere, can you (or knut) send a mail to the list explaining FEIDE?

21:02 < white> h01ger: that doesn't answer my question :)

21:02 < pere> <URL: http://feide.no/ > is the norwegian web site.

21:03 < h01ger> white, hmm. i dont know if such a list exists.

21:03 < h01ger> pere, mail, please.

21:03 < pere> I suspect it might be a good idea to involve the norwegian skolelinux company and Halvor Dahl.

21:03 < h01ger> otherwise its gets lost like the list white looks for :)

21:03 < luk> http://feide.no/index.en.html

21:04 < pere> dr3as_ might be a good person to ask for info on the schools need. he is working as an admin for the norwegian schools.

21:04 < h01ger> dr3as_ should then look at cipux :)

21:04 < pere> dr3as_ is Andreas Johnsen.

21:05 < pere> we discussed the needs for an user admin system earlier, and it was observed then that we need to make a decision soon to be able to get something ready for etch.

21:05 < [-oskar-]> hi

21:05 < white> can somebody comment on the ldap scheme and cipux?

21:05 < pere> I suggest we plan to make a decision in 3 weeks.

21:05 < h01ger> C14r, [-oskar-]: please provide cipux packages to download. source + binaries :)

21:05 < h01ger> [-oskar-], hi!

21:06 < pere> to all newcomers, please announce your presense using /me = Full Name for the summary writer.

21:06 < h01ger> white, iirc the cipux instructions correctly, it needs some minor tweaking to the schema. but maybe [-oskar-] knows more?

21:06 * [-oskar-] = Xavier Oswald

21:06 < pere> three important features for the project we select is active development and someone in the debian-edu project willing to do the work to integrate it into our installation. 21:06 < white> i guess ldap scheme compatibility is important

21:07 < [-oskar-]> C14r: did you close the latest warnings ?

21:07 -!- luk_ [~luk@d54C482A2.access.telenet.be] has joined #debian-edu

21:07 < pere> (and debian packages in debian/mian, of course)

21:07 < [-oskar-]> h01ger: C14r whould write a schema script but I don't know the status

21:08 < h01ger> [-oskar-], afaik there is one already

21:08 * h01ger looks

21:08 < [-oskar-]> h01ger: ok

21:09 < h01ger> # vim /etc/ldap/slapd.conf

21:09 < h01ger>

include /etc/ldap/schema/cipux.schema 21:09 < h01ger> from http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/CipUX/Installation/3.2.12

21:09 < pere> ok. anyone want to comment more on the cipux status before we move on?

21:09 < pere> 20 minutes left and 6 topics to cover.

21:09 < h01ger> lets move on. C14r & [-oskar-] we want+need packages for etch :)

21:09 < [-oskar-]> h01ger: ok

21:09 < [-oskar-]> ;)

21:09 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: Meeting in progress - Topic: amd64 port | agenda at <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>

21:10 < h01ger> pere, i liked your mail about "considerations" not blockers :) /me goes to reread it

21:10 < white> well before we start to discuss the porting stuff, do we have a buildd up and running?

21:10 < pere> I guess we should enforce that all agenda points need a person behind them.

21:10 -!- kaplan [~kaplan@85.65.219.129.dynamic.barak-online.net]

has joined #debian-edu 21:10 < pere> to all newcomers, please announce your presense using /me = Full Name for the summary writer.

21:11 < pere> so, who placed the amd64 port on the agenda, and why?

21:11 < zobel> white: we have a buildd, fs is operating it IIRC 21:12 < h01ger> "Are there other positive factors than increased memory address space?

The flip side of that is slower binaries as the programs become larger and more CPU cache space is spent on the programs. :/" - users want it (and more memory is really a good reason), and we would have an upgrade patch as daniel wrote, so i think these benefits weight more than the

only real downside on our side, the bigger space needed

21:12 < white> well it also needs to be included into the build system

21:12 * h01ger put it on the agenda, to "solve it". i also believe, if we dont make the port now, users will keep asking for it :) 21:12 < white> and we know that we are still

working on the ppc port

21:12 < pere> so, who got equipment to test the amd64 port? I do not.

21:12 -!- luk [~luk@d54C482A2.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]

21:13 < white> and we do not have a release there so far, so is it wise to start a new port?

21:13 < h01ger> pere, that daniel offered to test it

21:13 * kaplan = Lior Kaplan

21:13 < white> don't get me wrong, i am all for it

21:13 < luk_> I would love hw to test ppc and amd64 :-)

21:13 -!- luk_ is now known as luk

21:13 < h01ger> white, i think so. powerpc is mostly ready these days. aba has a small upload problem left.

21:13 < pere> well, I suggest we give it a go like the powerpc port, and at least get some test feedback on it.

21:13 * h01ger nods

21:13 < pere> who set up the build?

21:14 < pere> (let me know how much more space

is needed, so I can extend the partitions)

21:14 < jever> does the ppc stuff run on ibm prep

21:14 * h01ger looks at zobel for the buildd

21:14 < pere> next topic is the ppc build, so lets wrap up the amd64 issue first.

21:14 < zobel> h01ger: arch? ppc or amd64?

21:15 < h01ger> jever, not sure. i think its the wrong bootloader||kernel. (the cd is for newworld ppc and i'm pretty sure its not suited for prep)

21:15 < pere> CONF-etch-test-amd64.sh is needed, I guess, and a lot of script changes.

21:15 < h01ger> zobel, buildd+wanna buld for amd64

21:15 * h01ger is willing to work on the cd-build-stuff for amd64

21:15 < zobel> w-b for amd64 was me, buildd is fs.

21:15 * luk is willing to work on script changes for adding more archs

21:16 < h01ger> zobel, can you work this out with fs?

21:16 < zobel> sure.

21:16 < h01ger> luk, yay! i'm happy to work with you on that :)

21:16 < pere> ok. luk work on the amd64 cd port.

21:16 < pere> next topic.

21:16 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: Meeting in progress - Topic: powerpc buildd upload problems | agenda at <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>

21:17 < pere> who placed it on the agenda, and

why?

21:17 < h01ger> i put this topic there. to put it positivly: powerpc buildd and archive status is mostly good except aba has upload problems, which Werner or someone else from drift need to resolve please. (see backlog on #edu-dak)

21:17 < h01ger> (aba=abas buildd)

21:18 < zobel> h01ger: i am currently on this box and try to debug it.

21:18 * pere have no backlog. perhaps the problems should be mentioned in some email to drift@?

21:18 < zobel> passive ftp connection drops.

21:19 < pere> zobel: right. I'v seen those myself, and solved it using retries.

21:19 < zobel> not yet sure on which side.

21:19 < h01ger> but thats too much details for the meeting. drift@skolelinux.org?

21:19 < zobel> yeah

21:19 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: Meeting in progress - Topic: first steps document for sarge and etch | agenda at <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>

21:19 < pere> 4 topics to go and 10 minutes

left.

21:20 < h01ger> i put the topic there :) i gave a talk/workshop at a school last friday and http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Documentation/Presentations/G18 is the result. and i learned, that there is no easy "first steps in skolelinux" documentation

21:21 < pere> at least not in english.

21:21 < h01ger> the marketing material says "easy to setup" but its not true without documentation.

21:21 < h01ger> klausade helped me here on irc and after the meeting i found http://beheer.eduwijs.nl/skolelinux/skolelinuxtutor.pdf

21:21 < pere> I believe the people writing documentation in different languages need to coordinate their work, to avoid too much differences across languages.

21:21 < h01ger> yes. we should have a "master" document in english

21:22 < pere> the problem with the english master document is that several of the people writing docs prefer to work in norwegian/german/whatnot.

21:22 < jever> h01ger: I've a movie showing my little daughter teaching an adult to install skole

21:22 < h01ger> and as etch is not done yet, i thought i mention it now. its also part of testing instructions. what needs to be done, to get ldap+users+homes running and _testable_ :)

21:22 < white> pere: but everybody can speak english :)

21:22 < h01ger> jever, hehe

21:23 < pere> sure, but we talk about writing documentation here. and if those writing docs prefer to do it in a non-english language, it is going to be written in an non-english language.

21:23 < h01ger> pere, yes. but its bad for our project.

21:23 < pere> ok. anyone disagree that we need intro documentation?

21:24 < pere> if not, do we have a volunteer to work on it?

21:24 < pere> next topic

21:24 < h01ger> they can write it it norwegian||german||foo first, if they translate it to english immediatly and commit at the same time *eg*

21:24 * h01ger will accompany the cipux installation and keep an eye on documentation, too

21:25 < [-oskar-]> ;)

21:25 < pere> h01ger: sure, but my experience with this project for 5 years is that it does not work like that.

21:25 < pere> h01ger: we tried with master document in docbook and .po files for

translation, but the result was alternative documentation popped up everywhere else.

21:25 < [-oskar-]> h01ger: I think we will have cipux ready soon, in 2-3 days..

21:25 < pere> lets move on.

21:25 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu

to: Meeting in progress - Topic: EDUSOL, the Second On-line Encounter of Education and Free Software. | agenda at <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>

21:26 < h01ger> pere, yes. but you have most experience in this project when it was less international. using english, when not your native tongue, is a disadvantage. but being able to work together with many people can be an advantage

21:26 < h01ger> ... can be a _bigger_ advantage

21:26 < pere> h01ger: I hope you are right, because we need consistent documentation.

21:26 -!- dwatson [~david@81-178-25-182.dsl.pipex.com] has joined

#debian-edu

21:26 < h01ger> uff.. again me. EDUSOL is a online edu meeting gwolf pointed out to me and he asked if he should do live-translations...

21:26 < pere> who want to talk about EDUSOL? 3 minutes left.

21:27 < pere> are anyone going there from debian-edu?

21:28 < h01ger> lets move on. edusol is a spanish meeting on wednesday or thursday this week and gunnar offered to do live-translation. contact me if someone is interested. i think i'll write a short mail later, too

21:28 < pere> Personally, I believe we should do a better job advertising debian-edu. an article in Linux Journal, showing up at conferences to talk about it, spread the work to schools, perhaps have a support company in germany as well to sell support on it.

21:29 < pere> next topic

21:29 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: Meeting in progress - Topic: Living together of Linux- and Windowsclients at the home shares (samba/nfs/console) and the need of configuring it right | agenda at <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>

21:29 -!- luk_ [~luk@d54C482A2.access.telenet.be] has joined #debian-edu

21:29 < jever> I'v put it there

21:30 < jever> I think, when a user accesses a directory from a linuxmachine or from a windowsmaschine at school he must see the same filenames and content.

21:30 < jever> he has to get the same accesrights and ability to set them

21:30 < pere> jever: yes, that is the idea behind the inclusion of a samba server. does it not work?

21:31 < jever> I think it works, but you have to do it work for your own

21:31 < jever> it has to be configured while installation

21:32 < jever> so the filesystem has to be mountet with acl and so on

21:32 < h01ger> jever, write a detailed wiki page with the needed steps, first (and as immediate help). then we can make it happen automatically at installation. or just file a bug :)

21:32 < pere> anyone know what is needed to get

it working properly? I guess details about the problem with the current setup is needed.

21:32 < Gagatan> g'evening..

21:32 < jever> I filed a bug

21:32 < h01ger> #?

21:32 < jever> it is still open I think

21:32 < jever> mom

21:32 < pere> to all newcomers, please announce your presense using /me = Full Name for the summary writer.

21:33 < jever> #1064

21:33 <@Werner> jever: I guess enabling acl on a Linux filesystem might work for clients on Windows computers talking with the samba server, but not e.g. Solaris clients mounting the filesystems over NFS..

21:33 < pere> ok, we are seriously running out of time. I got to leave very soon.

21:33 < pere> last topic.

21:33 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu to: Meeting in progress - Topic: Status of kiosk modes and further plans| agenda at <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting>

21:33 < jever> Werner: are solaris clients in a skole net?

21:34 < white> in short, i am working on two kiosk modes as new features for terra

21:34 < Gagatan> Werner: solaris <-> solaris works great.. solaris <-> linux, not so great (reg. nfs and ACLs)

21:34 < white> pupils for normal students, e.g. highschool

21:34 < white> and kids, e.g. kindergarden, primary school

21:34 < white> it is just a start, but i thought i give it a go to add some desktop features, maybe to catch up with edubuntu and others :)

21:34 < white> that's pretty much it

21:35 * Gagatan = Bjørn Ove Grøtan

21:35 <@Werner> jever: why not?

21:35 < white> it needs some testing, but i guess i can make it in time

21:35 <@Werner> jever: that was an example .. other *NIX'es over NFS will not work I guess...

21:35 < jever> Werner: Yes, why not ;-)

21:35 < pere> white: this sounds interesting. we should get some schools to test it and let us know if it fit their need or should be adjuted.

21:35 -!- luk [~luk@d54C482A2.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]

21:35 < white> pere: of course, i can't judge about it

21:35 < white> and i already called for helpers

21:35 * h01ger wonders about the skolelinux-bugtracking system in general. its one system for all bugs? cant/shouldnt we just use the debian-bts and a pseudo- or real package? (i guess its historic reasons..)

21:36 < white> and when i get it fully working for the first time i will call for testers

21:36 * h01ger goes to bugs.s.o

21:36 < pere> h01ger: not all our packages are/where in debian. :)

21:36 < pere> s/h//

21:36 < white> h01ger: there are also other reasons :)

21:36 < white> e.g. easier to use or system components in general

21:36 < white> any questions about kiosk modes?

21:36 < pere> I recommend bts for the packages in debian.

21:36 < white> feel free to join me for testing or devel there :)

21:37 * pere need instructions on how to test it.

21:37 < pere> but I believe we should close the meeting here.

21:37 < pere> any objections?

21:37 < h01ger> no :) 21:37 < h01ger> white, what other reasons?

21:37 < luk_> no objections

21:37 < white> h01ger: that it is easier to use than the debian bts

21:38 * h01ger lols at http://bugs.skolelinux.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1064 from two and a half years ago... :)

21:38 < pere> Thank you all for joining this meeting. next meeting in three weeks. Please lets work together on IRC in the mean time. :)

21:38 < white> h01ger: and that the people are ready to put the bugs into the right categories

21:38 < pere> the meeting is now closed.

21:38 -!- pere changed the topic of #debian-edu

to: Next meeting on December 11th, 19.30 UTC, see <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting> | test daily build for test02

21:38 < white> h01ger: so that people do not get blamed for "wrong" bugreports

21:38 < white> i will publish the log now

21:38 < h01ger> white, noooooooooooooooooo. bugzilla is teh pain.

21:39 < white> h01ger: i can understand that bugzilla is easier than bts for most people :)