1 17:00 * pere = Petter Reinholdtsen
2 17:01 -!- pere
3 17:02 < zobel> i have one more topic i would like to discuss: libdvdcss
4 17:02 < pere> so, time to start. moderator and log collector is already found. who can write the summary.
5 17:02 < pere> zobel: ok, put it on the wiki page.
6 17:02 * winnie = Patrick Winnertz
7 17:02 * binar Benedikt Wildenhain
8 17:02 < zobel> done.
9 17:03 < pere> if you are new to this, please use /me = Full Name indicating your presense to make it easier for the person writing the summary.
10 17:03 < pere> who can write the summary and post it on the wiki and the mailing list?
11 17:03 * zobel = Martin Zobel-Helas :-) (as said earlier)
12 17:04 * binar = Benedikt Wildenhain
13 17:05 < pere> without any summary writer, I find it hard to continue.
14 17:05 * sepski = Ronny Aasen, intermittantly present
15 17:05 < winnie> pere: I can write it, I've tomorrow 6 hours without uni
16 17:05 * h01ger = Holger Levsen
17 17:06 < pere> winnie: great. please put your name on the wiki page.
18 17:06 < pere> ok. first topic on the agenda is releasing a new test version. I placed it there.
19 17:07 < pere> as far as I can see, the etch-test CD is in a releasable state, and we can release a snapshot after writing release notes.
20 17:07 < pere> should we release the DVD and powerpc version as well? Do they work?
21 17:07 < winnie> pere: done
22 17:08 < pere> ok, no one seem to have knowledge and comments. lets move on to the next topic, the status of the etch release of debian edu.
23 17:09 < zobel> pere: as far as i know, there are still some packages missing ppc builds. but i can either try to kick aba hard enough, or setup my own buildd for that.
24 17:09 < sepski> etch-test worked fine today, i dont know about etch
25 17:09 < h01ger> pere, the powerpc version will not work: 1.) do "for i in `cat hintpkgs-etch-test.txt |grep -v \#` ;do grep $i cdspacelist-etch-test-powerpc.txt>/dev/null || echo $i; done" in the build-dir.. 2.) autobuilding for ppc does not work yet. i'm reminding aba daily to fix this :)
26 17:10 < zobel> h01ger: please sent a mail to an address i will give you in a second
27 17:10 < pere> OK. I take this to mean we are not releasing the powerpc version yet.
28 17:10 * h01ger nods
29 17:10 < pere> what about the dvd version? Does it work?
30 17:10 < h01ger> maybe we can/should release it and call for testers
31 17:11 < h01ger> i think manny schools in .de should have the means to test or the testzentrum in guetersloh
32 17:11 < pere> we could. one known issue with it is that the partition minimum sizes are too smal.
33 17:11 < h01ger> many! arg :)
34 17:12 < h01ger> i think we should point people to the dvd to find some "permanent" testers
35 17:13 < winnie> h01ger: you want to release the dvd, too?
36 17:13 < pere> are there any problems with releasing the dvd version sa well? We will spend a lot more space on the archive disk. I'm not aware of any other problems. do you know?
37 17:13 < h01ger> winnie, yes
38 17:13 < pere> who got time to write the release notes and make the release. I'm not sure I will find time this week, but might get lucky.
39 17:14 < pere> ok, we do not have to find a volunteer for that during this meeting. we can coordinate that on irc later.
40 17:14 < pere> next topic
41 17:14 -!- pere
42 17:15 < pere> is the status page updated and correct?
43 17:15 < sepski> pretty much yes
44 17:15 < jever> <-- Jürgen Leibner
45 17:16 < sepski> except the layout issue that i closed manually
46 17:16 < pere> did everyone have a look at <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Status/Etch >?
47 17:16 < h01ger> the "Missing user administration system" not so much..
48 17:16 * h01ger nods
49 17:16 < sepski> now thatone is fixed too
50 17:17 < pere> perhaps we should put names after the items on that list, to document who is looking into the issues?
51 17:17 < sepski> i have not noticed the cd build beeing unstable any longer ?
52 17:17 * h01ger nods pere+names
53 17:17 < pere> the CD build isn't unstable any longer. it either breaks or don't. no longer partial breaks with strange CD content as the result.
54 17:18 < pere> are anyone working on making source CDs?
55 17:18 < pere> or the nagios config issues?
56 17:18 < winnie> pere: I think the nagios config issues are related to our rc bug?
57 17:18 < sepski> i might look at nagions, but not in the first 14 days since ill be away
58 17:18 < pere> (for nss-ldap, I uploaded a new sysvinit package to sid yesterday. If I can get it into etch, it will solve the libnss-ldap issue.
59 17:18 < h01ger> pere, isnt that SOURCE=1 ?
60 17:19 < pere> h01ger: nope. SOURCE=1 do not give our packages on source CD 1. the source CDs are not sorted according to the packages on the binary CDS.
61 17:20 < h01ger> oh, great :(
62 17:20 < pere> we can't archive 15 source CDs to be sure we get the source for all our binaries, so we need to make sure the source CDs we make only include the source of "our" binary packagse.
63 17:20 < pere> at least that was the problem when I looked at it a few years ago.
64 17:21 < pere> I've asked lars risan to look at the artwork issue. the only important image left to improve is the boot splash screen image.
65 17:22 < pere> and the keyboard layout issue is solved, according to sepski. I have not verified this myself.
66 17:22 < pere> ok. if you find important problems, please update the status wiki page.
67 17:22 < pere> more comments before we move on?
68 17:23 -!- pere
69 17:23 -!- pere
70 17:23 < pere> who want to start?
71 17:24 * h01ger pities C14 and [-oskar-] are not here
72 17:24 < winnie> yes
73 17:24 < winnie> I want to ask if they are around
74 17:24 < h01ger> i guess you followed the list today? (about cipux)
75 17:24 < pere> 35 minutes left until we should be done. keep that in mind.
76 17:24 < winnie> yes of course
77 17:24 < winnie> what is the status of cipux
78 17:24 < winnie> and what about the security problems SammyWG found?
79 17:25 < [-oskar-]> h01ger: hi
80 17:25 < h01ger> winnie, SammyWG will rewrite the php-frontend from scratch
81 17:25 < h01ger> hey [-oskar-] :)
82 17:25 < winnie> has anybody checked the rpc daemon for security holes?
83 17:25 < [-oskar-]> well, the french team is not active anymore
84 17:25 < h01ger> winnie, and there is a second web-frontend now, cipux-cat-web (if i understood correctly, i never saw the running programms :)
85 17:26 < pere> please indicate your presense using /me = Full name for the summary writer
86 17:26 < h01ger> winnie, afaik not
87 17:26 < [-oskar-]> so C14r write a new admin tool as you can see on the debian-edu list
88 17:26 < [-oskar-]> and SammyWG will write a new one which will be include as a moodle plgin
89 17:26 < winnie> [-oskar-]: you mean the moodle php plugin is obsolete right now?
90 17:26 < h01ger> [-oskar-], s/new admin tool/new frontend/
91 17:26 < h01ger> ?
92 17:27 < [-oskar-]> winnie: yes because C14r has changed lots of function in his code
93 17:27 < [-oskar-]> h01ger: web admin fronted for cipux
94 17:27 < SammyWG> re.
95 17:27 < winnie> [-oskar-]: do you know if anybody tested the rpc daemon for security issues?
96 17:28 < [-oskar-]> winnie: the problem is that you need lots of knowledge to be able to test it
97 17:28 < SammyWG> winnie: youve perl skills, havent you?
98 17:28 < SammyWG> winnie: so ... could you audit the demon?
99 17:28 < zobel> aehm.
100 17:29 < winnie> SammyWG: there are people who are better --> zobel
101 17:29 < pere> for debian-edu, we need a system that install and work out of the box after installation, and that allow the sysadmin to update user and group information from remote. do we have any options for this?
102 17:29 < SammyWG> winnie: k. :)
103 17:29 < SammyWG> zobel: would you? :)
104 17:30 < [-oskar-]> pere: you can use the cipux function on command line
105 17:30 < zobel> SammyWG: i could, but earliest on the next weekend.
106 17:30 * h01ger thinks we should try+help get cipux into releasable state NOW, as otherwise this will be our release blocker (if debian doesnt take 3month). we need something NOW and we have nothing NOW except cipux. pere, the only other option i know is gosa. but we have the german team who puts lots of effort into cipux
107 17:30 < pere> [-oskar-]: would you like to guide your grandmother through that process on the phone? If not, we need something simpler. :)
108 17:30 < SammyWG> zobel: so youre ready before the frontend is completely written ;)
109 17:31 < zobel> SammyWG: mail me an url to email@example.com
110 17:31 < h01ger> besides security review the other urgent topic i see is automatic installation (of cipux) without user-interaction
111 17:31 < [-oskar-]> pere: sure, that's why this moodle plugin and the C14r's new web tool
112 17:31 < h01ger> [-oskar-], not the initial setup
113 17:32 < pere> what other options do we have except cipux? maintaining webmin ourself is of course one. others?
114 17:32 < xorAxAx> has anybody thought about reviving CAT?
115 17:32 < h01ger> pere, gosa
116 17:32 < [-oskar-]> pere: two people from the french team tells me they will work on it, but I can't see any work from them
117 17:32 < zobel> pere: perl4 code?
118 17:32 < xorAxAx> there is even a current webmin package, packages by the maintainer of webmin
119 17:32 < sepski> phpldapadmin
120 17:32 < h01ger> [-oskar-], work on _it_? what do you mean with it? (two peoplefrom the french team)
121 17:33 < h01ger> sepski, i think C14r has a point that thats not suited for teachers
122 17:33 < [-oskar-]> h01ger: on cipuxPHP, the moodle plugin
123 17:33 < h01ger> ah
124 17:33 < xorAxAx> so CAT should be usable directly
125 17:33 < sepski> h01ger, akai mentioned that it was possible to use templates to give it a more fiendly front. but i have not looked at it at all myself
126 17:33 < [-oskar-]> They need it too but doesn't made any effort :/
127 17:33 < sepski> friendly..
128 17:34 < [-oskar-]> SammyWG: what's the state of your work ?
129 17:34 < xorAxAx> so you wont have any blockers besides the security review
130 17:34 < h01ger> xorAxAx, automatic setup
131 17:34 < xorAxAx> h01ger: right
132 17:34 < xorAxAx> h01ger: cat and cipux need better packages as well
133 17:34 < pere> how do we proceed from here? who is working on this issue for debian-edu? I'm not.
134 17:34 < h01ger> we need to find a policy conforming way...
135 17:34 < sepski> if there is setup not possible within the package itself, eg becouse of policy issues. we can handle those in cfengine.
136 17:35 < pere> we want the system we use in debian/main, but have probably run out of time to introduce packages into etch.
137 17:35 < winnie> h01ger: do we still need to edit the ldap configuration files for cipux?
138 17:35 < winnie> (I played a bit with cipux one year ago, and you have to make hugh changes in this configuration files)
139 17:35 < h01ger> winnie, i dont know cipux well enough to answer this question
140 17:35 < xorAxAx> zobel: whats the planned new feature freeze date for etch?
141 17:35 < pere> and if we switch away from wlus, we need to plan an upgrade path for the existing installations.
142 17:35 < SammyWG> [-oskar-]: as i said, fastest way is end of next week.
143 17:36 < [-oskar-]> pere: I will work tomorow and wednesday getting the 2 missing perl libs
144 17:36 < [-oskar-]> SammyWG: ok :/
145 17:36 < pere> xorAxAx: forget the freeze date. new packages need months to stabilize in unstable before they are ready for testing.
146 17:36 < zobel> xorAxAx: no plan.
147 17:36 < [-oskar-]> pere: and checking the remaining linda warnings
148 17:36 < h01ger> winnie, there is a wiki page with setup instruction. but they are for sarge. could you take the etch-packages (as on thelist today) and try to make it workon etch? i only build the packages today,i havent tried to use them..
149 17:36 < SammyWG> [-oskar-]: was writing some tests and basic architecture these days, but dont think to write a rewrite that needs another rewrite in near future ...
150 17:36 < C14r> C14r Christian KUelker
151 17:36 < SammyWG> zobel: ygm
152 17:36 < xorAxAx> pere: hmm, is there a fixed timespan for the migration?
153 17:36 < zobel> SammyWG: thx
154 17:36 < [-oskar-]> C14r: great tou are here !
155 17:36 < xorAxAx> pere: or how is that determined?
156 17:36 < h01ger> hi C14r
157 17:37 < pere> xorAxAx: migration for existing users of wlus?
158 17:37 < xorAxAx> pere: no, for suites from unstable to testing
159 17:38 < zobel> xorAxAx: 10 days, if no RC bugs arise.
160 17:38 < winnie> C14r: which configurationfiles have to be modified for cipux?
161 17:38 < xorAxAx> so its not different for new packages
162 17:38 < pere> xorAxAx: there are two stopping points, NEW processing (unknown duration, currently long), and unstable->testing migration (10 days after last upload without any RC bugs found during those 10 days).
163 17:38 < [-oskar-]> pere: I think the freeze is not finished so we can use priority high for cipux ?
164 17:38 < xorAxAx> so i dont see the months here :)
165 17:38 < pere> [-oskar-]: forget it. it is not going to work. we are just too late.
166 17:38 < [-oskar-]> ok :/
167 17:39 < zobel> pere: several persons within -release currently try to work on that -html output thing to get ftp-assistant rights...
168 17:39 < pere> xorAxAx: NEW processing might end up being a month or more. and getting packages RC-free normally take 1-2 months as well.
169 17:39 < xorAxAx> pere: ok
170 17:39 * h01ger added the following to the etch status page:
171 17:39 < h01ger> replace with cipux? -> three blockers:
172 17:39 < h01ger> security review of cipux (the backend).
173 17:39 < h01ger> automatic installation incl. configuration (in etch/sid)
174 17:39 < h01ger> migration plan for existing wlus setups
175 17:40 < h01ger> gna. the last three lines are a numbered list...
176 17:40 < pere> I believe the best we can hope for with new packages is to get the same packages into unstable and debian-edu/etch.
177 17:40 < C14r> winnie: have a look at the installation guide on wiki.debian.org
178 17:40 < winnie> C14r: this installation guide is for sarge, isn't it?
179 17:40 < pere> ok, 20 minutes left. we need to move forward on the agenda to finish before I leave.
180 17:41 < sepski> h01ger, if you have packages that install, i can try to gather some time to see if i can get them configured in etch. all depending on the time ill have
181 17:41 < C14r> winnie: yes but not to much modification fo edge, i thin, but you know the diff
182 17:41 < h01ger> i really hate to suggest this: but how about making the packages automatically configure first (emphasize on that) and care about policy confirming in the 2nd step ?
183 17:41 < pere> should we move on to the next topic, editing of other packages config files?
184 17:41 < zobel> pere: should we move my both points to now? they are rather short..
185 17:41 < pere> zobel: I'm fine with it, unless someone protest?
186 17:42 < h01ger> C14r, winnie: what i said before was mostly for you :)
187 17:42 -!- pere
188 17:42 < h01ger> (and i'm fine with moving on, we can disucss that later)
189 17:42 < pere> zobel: go ahead.
190 17:42 < zobel> okay. my idea is: pushing a libdvdcss installer
191 17:42 < pere> zobel: like the easyubuntu stuff?
192 17:42 < zobel> with that, we can have tar.gz, we download in postinst from ftp.s.no
193 17:43 < zobel> that has the oportunity to have that package in debian
194 17:43 < pere> zobel: what do you mean by "have tar.gz"?
195 17:43 < zobel> and as we are allowed to redistrbute it from .no, we can publish it on the webserver.
196 17:44 < zobel> pere: we need some kind of package we can download.
197 17:44 < pere> ah, right. why not download a .deb?
198 17:44 < zobel> whatever that is. tar.gz, .bin, source, what ever.
199 17:44 < h01ger> pere, lets reject the current libdvdcss package for now. it can be reuploaded later at any time. and the current situation is clear: we cannot distribute it as much as we want/need. (e.g. on the CDs worldwide). pere, you also said you wanted to "test/examine the system/situation". this has been done. (it would be nice to remove it to have an empty NEW to easier keep focus :)
200 17:44 < pere> wget; dpkg -i ...
201 17:45 < pere> h01ger: before doing that, lets try to write up our current findings on a wiki page.
202 17:45 < zobel> pere: with the downloader, we can even distribute cds/dvds in germany which have that package on them...
203 17:45 < pere> are we sure the installer is "safe"?
204 17:46 < klausade> Werner: ping
205 17:46 < zobel> without legal problems (My PoV)
206 17:46 < pere> klausade: meeting in progress. participate or move elsewhere.
207 17:46 < zobel> pere: i will discuss that with a debian ftp-master.
208 17:46 < zobel> i am finished.
209 17:47 < h01ger> pere, would you do that?
210 17:47 < pere> I mentioned the libdvdcss issue while we presented the free software prize in norway, and hope we can get more light on the issue here in norway.
211 17:47 < xorAxAx> in germany, it is illegal to advertise programs that can be used to copy copy-protected CDs (cf. heise.de)
212 17:47 < h01ger> libdvdcss doesnt do that
213 17:47 < pere> the political advisor for the minister of it questions were present. I hope he remember it.
214 17:48 < zobel> h01ger: can we try what greg says on that idea?
215 17:48 < pere> I've also talked about the issue with someone skilled in legal issues here in norway, and he might be interested in following up on the topic. I have not heard from in in a few weeks, but hope to poke him again
216 17:49 < pere> zobel: if such installer is possible, I suggest we just port easyubuntu to debian and use it
217 17:49 < h01ger> zobel, eparse. i already told you what greg said and that i'm waiting for another reply
218 17:49 < zobel> pere: okay with me
219 17:50 < pere> (there are other packages doing similar things. we should review and pick the best of them for porting. :)
220 17:50 < zobel> for dvd/cd stuff: i poked Sledge, if we can move skole cd building to cdimage. he said, we is waiting for some repartitionin on cdimage.d.o, and then that should be possible.
221 17:50 < pere> ok. next topic.
222 17:50 -!- pere
223 17:50 -!- oho2496
224 17:50 < zobel> i poked Sledge, if we can move skole cd building to cdimage. he said, we is waiting for some repartitionin on cdimage.d.o, and then that should be possible.
225 17:50 < zobel> that is only a status update.
226 17:51 < zobel> discussion on that later, no need to held that now.
227 17:51 < h01ger> zobel, did you ask him if we can get access there too, to fix our builds?
228 17:51 < zobel> h01ger: need to work that out, so no.
229 17:51 < zobel> not yet.
230 17:51 < pere> sounds good. will this be for build only, or can we have a archive of old images as well?
231 17:52 < h01ger> maybe it would better, to keep building on a.s.n and just copy the images over?
232 17:52 < h01ger> +be
233 17:52 < zobel> pere: lets set up a wiki page with questions, i will discuss that with Sledge leter.
234 17:53 < pere> h01ger: yes, it might. we need to log in and fix the build from time to time, when the toplevel makefile get a bug.
235 17:53 < zobel> next topic.
236 17:53 -!- pere
237 17:53 < pere> 7 minutes left
238 17:53 < h01ger> i guess its too late in the release-process to just replace syslog with syslog-ng?
239 17:54 < zobel> h01ger: yes
240 17:54 < pere> h01ger: not for us. :) does it support preseeding of the stuff we need?
241 17:54 < h01ger> zobel, see. go away, do debian work :-D
242 17:54 < h01ger> pere, i have not checked yet
243 17:54 < winnie> h01ger: I'm checking right now
244 17:55 < pere> syslog-ng isn't frozen yet, so we might even get the fixes we need into it, if its maintainer is friendly.
245 17:55 < winnie> pere: syslog-ng doesn't use debconf yet
246 17:55 < pere> :(
247 17:55 < pere> oh, well. did anyone have time to review our cfengine rules, and drop stuff we no longer need?
248 17:55 < h01ger> winnie, can you write a mail to the maintainer and ask for his opinion?
249 17:56 < winnie> but it should be quite easy to write a patch and send it to the maintainer
250 17:56 < h01ger> white, ask him first :) less work
251 17:56 < winnie> h01ger: yes, I will do this tomorrow
252 17:56 < winnie> okay I have to leave right now :S
253 17:57 < pere> anyone know what the release managers view on localization-config is? It have the same problem we have.
254 17:58 < zobel> has it udebs?
255 17:58 < pere> will it help to move our editing code into the udeb?
256 17:58 < pere> zobel: what do you mean? localization-config have both deb and udeb.
257 17:58 < sepski> pere, that would not solve the upgrade issues would it ?
258 17:58 < zobel> pere: if it has udebs, it might get harder, as soon as RC1 is out.
259 17:58 < pere> sepski: nope. :)
260 17:58 < h01ger> zobel, localisation-config also modifies config files but is not RC buggy. thats why pere is asking
261 17:59 < zobel> ah, okay.
262 17:59 < zobel> h01ger: bug-#?
263 17:59 < pere> zobel: why is it getting harder?
264 17:59 < h01ger> zobel, #311188
265 17:59 < pere> (or what is getting harder after rc is out?)
266 17:59 < sepski> i feel that solving the policy issue thru a workaround is pointless. we should either fix the blocking bugs to make them configureable. or/and, make our cfengine so good, that it can run from crontab
267 17:59 < h01ger> zobel, localistaion config has no bug
268 17:59 * h01ger nods sepski
269 17:59 < sepski> if it runs on crontab it will fix packages broken by upgrades
270 18:00 < sepski> and then nobody can say we modify anything by installing it.
271 18:00 < sepski> a preseedable questions where we enable the cronjobs will do it for us.
272 18:00 < pere> sepski: well, I believe the only solution for the upgrade issue is to make sure the debian packages themselves keep the configuration during upgrades.
273 18:01 < sepski> that would be the best
274 18:01 < pere> did anyone have a look at the work done by sergio? moving away the modified config files during upgrades, and moving them back afterwards.
275 18:01 < pere> ok, my time is up.
276 18:01 < pere> next meeting/
277 18:01 < pere> ?
278 18:02 < pere> in 14 days?
279 18:02 < zobel> okay with me.
280 18:02 * h01ger nods
281 18:02 < h01ger> C14r, [-oskar-] ?
282 18:02 < pere> 2006-11-13 17:00 UTC?
283 18:02 < zobel> winnie: please try to solve 370332 inhouse next days.
284 18:02 < zobel> a bit later please.
285 18:02 < [-oskar-]> h01ger: ok
286 18:02 < zobel> pere: ^
287 18:03 < pere> white in australia asked to have it earlier. that is how we ended up with 17:00 UTC.
288 18:03 < zobel> i ususally come from work around 1700 CET.
289 18:03 < zobel> s/CET/UTC/
290 18:03 < zobel> and white did not attend today.... :)
291 18:03 < pere> zenit: yes. he is working on his exams.
292 18:04 < pere> should resurfase in 2-3 days.
293 18:04 < zobel> okay.
294 18:04 < pere> I'm not confortable with changing the time again, without discussing it again on the mailing list.
295 18:04 < zobel> k.
296 18:04 < zobel> i dont wont to be show-stopper for that.
297 18:05 < pere> ok. in 14 days. same time as today. see you all later, on this channel. :)
298 18:05 * pere need to run.
299 18:06 -!- pere