**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 26 20:43:56 2006 jun 26 20:48:16 * Bman^ (~andre@193.90.60.81) has joined #debian-edu jun 26 20:54:22 * Channel #debian-edu modes: +nt jun 26 20:54:22 * Channel #debian-edu created on Mon May 08 11:22:00 2006 jun 26 20:58:33 * knuty has joined jun 26 20:58:36 * h01ger waves jun 26 20:59:05 * k4x = Kurt Gramlich jun 26 21:00:47 * h01ger tears his hair with tuxtype. after the licence mess i now can convert it to utf8 before i can/want to release it... jun 26 21:03:29 sepski who's running the show ? jun 26 21:03:42 * sepski = Ronny Aasen jun 26 21:04:24 * xorAxAx = Alexander Schremmer jun 26 21:04:38 xorAxAx now the southern americans know skolelinux jun 26 21:04:54 xorAxAx i wonder if nobody has used it with locale es? it has a show blocking bug :) jun 26 21:05:00 k4x xorAxAx: congrats ;-) jun 26 21:05:06 xorAxAx but i didnt tell anybody about it :) jun 26 21:07:50 sepski are there no moderator for this meeting ? should i just talk about partman and be done with it ? :) jun 26 21:09:00 h01ger shouldnt we follow the agenda? jun 26 21:09:01 h01ger :) jun 26 21:09:50 sepski aye, but usualy someone calls to order or some moderatoish buisiniss.... im just a tech i have no social skills :) jun 26 21:10:52 h01ger /topic 1. Status of Autopartitioning 1.1 partman 1.2 autopartkit jun 26 21:11:08 h01ger i cant set the topic, cause i'm not channel operator :( jun 26 21:12:05 sepski well i'll just say what i have to say about partman then. jun 26 21:12:18 knuty sepski: do that :) jun 26 21:12:40 sepski first of all. partman work it's preseedable (with a few exceptions) jun 26 21:13:49 sepski without lvm it is down to 1 question, the confirmation dialog. with lvm we need 2, but that's also fixed in the next partman-auto-lvm http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=375265 jun 26 21:14:34 sepski currently we use partman/9, the fix requered for preseeding with lvm is in partman/13, the good news is that it's soon going to be a beta3 installer and hopefully its coming into etch then. jun 26 21:15:13 knuty sepski: Thats really good news. jun 26 21:15:15 sepski when that happen partitioning is done in 1 question, the confirmation dialog jun 26 21:15:41 sepski another issue that's not so good is that partman can only make 1 (one) volume group jun 26 21:16:11 sepski the name of the volumegroup is made as a preseed and not tru the recipe jun 26 21:16:21 * h01ger wondered today why we build against the etch installer, while the d-i team builds against sid jun 26 21:16:58 sepski h01ger, good question i think becouse it takes work to convert to sid's jun 26 21:17:12 sepski that leave us with a few options. jun 26 21:17:58 h01ger sepski, how much do we differ from normal d-i? (briefly, we can discuss details after the meeting..) jun 26 21:18:20 sepski we can 1: use 1 vg and not worry about having data and system lv's in the same vg, 2: we can reserve space for vg_data in the recipes and make vg_date and lv's in the cfengine run or similar, or rewrite partman to take vg config tru the recipes jun 26 21:18:33 xorAxAx h01ger: they build against sid for the etch images? jun 26 21:19:04 sepski h01ger, xorAxAx they develop on sid and have daily images jun 26 21:19:16 sepski they are soon making a beta3 installer. jun 26 21:19:33 h01ger xorAxAx, no. the daily-builds are against sid. etch builds are seldom. (beta3 is one) jun 26 21:19:36 sepski when the installer freeze we should build against that. but now it would be better to build against sid's :) jun 26 21:19:56 xorAxAx sepski: yeah, right ... so they will migrate their packages before the next beta? jun 26 21:20:06 sepski any thoughts about what to do with volumegroups ? jun 26 21:20:27 sepski rewriting partman is way out of my leauge. and i dont think anyone else have that much time either jun 26 21:20:32 h01ger xorAxAx, yes jun 26 21:22:05 sepski putting everything in a single vg is the easy way out, then it works as it is now. making room for a partition in the recipes and making the vg later is a posibility, but will require some work jun 26 21:22:43 sepski if there is no opinions on it i will continue jun 26 21:22:50 knuty What is the recomend way to solve volume groupe issue other than placing everything on one vg jun 26 21:22:52 knuty ? jun 26 21:23:02 h01ger do it manually jun 26 21:23:10 h01ger its not preseedable _AIUI_ jun 26 21:23:41 knuty h01ger: So we has to convice the d-i partman people? jun 26 21:23:54 knuty To make support for 1+n volume groups? jun 26 21:24:06 h01ger they know its a nice feature :) jun 26 21:24:15 sepski they have too much on their time already before the installer freeze, they will use out patch if we make it. jun 26 21:25:05 h01ger sepski, #375265 is fixed. so the problem left (1+n volume groups) is the same as preseeding multiple discs, right? jun 26 21:25:18 sepski would it be realy bad to have everything in a single volumegroup ? jun 26 21:26:25 sepski that bug was just to have the ability to preseed the what disk to partition question ,and get it with lvm jun 26 21:26:43 sepski partman-auto can only handle 1 disc atm afaik jun 26 21:26:56 knuty sepski: From a maintainability standpoint i believe not, but that could be changed later. Now the installer should work to get other things done. jun 26 21:27:04 * h01ger dont think its really bad, its what we have in sarge :) more would be better, obvioulsy jun 26 21:27:15 sepski then ill leave it as 1 vg and we look at what can be done later. jun 26 21:27:26 sepski now another issue. jun 26 21:27:48 knuty sepski: Does it crash. If partman-auto can handle on disk don't touching two disks or make a RAID it's ok for developer purposes. jun 26 21:28:00 knuty sepski: Yes the other issus jun 26 21:28:53 sepski if there is a vg with the same name as the one beeing created on the disc already the lvm tools recognice the signature and refuse to overwrite it. this is checked for in the installer to prevent a bad crash, but it will prevent you from partitioning the disc. jun 26 21:29:21 sepski the bug http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=347479 jun 26 21:30:14 sepski it's not realy much we can do anything about. i guess we could use a different vg name, but i dont think that's to clever either. jun 26 21:31:52 h01ger so are we done with the partman topic? :) jun 26 21:31:56 sepski nope :) jun 26 21:31:59 h01ger or are there more issues? jun 26 21:32:15 sepski the recipes need more work. jun 26 21:32:20 sepski and another. jun 26 21:32:38 sepski autopartkit seam to have configs for tmpfs filesystesms ?? whats that about ? jun 26 21:32:43 sepski just a clever way to feed fstab ? jun 26 21:33:05 h01ger sepski, where/what configs? jun 26 21:33:54 sepski line 8 of debian-edu-install/autopartkit/Main-Server.table jun 26 21:34:22 sepski i was looking at autopartkit tables to get min and max values for partition sizes when i noticed it jun 26 21:35:56 * h01ger thinks its a clever way to feed fstab jun 26 21:35:59 sepski but i guess that can be done as part of the cfengine run rather easily. jun 26 21:36:26 sepski then i was about done with the partman part of the installer. jun 26 21:36:51 sepski generaly it works a few minor issues and i think it will work rater well. jun 26 21:38:12 sepski keep in mind that the installer today makes non lvm partitions ill change that when we have partman-auto-lvm/13, but is very easy to change jun 26 21:38:37 h01ger sepski, are u in touch with Alphix? - he seems to work on lvm autopartioning in d-i... jun 26 21:39:23 sepski h01ger, i have asked a few questions in debian-boot, but it's usualy Frans Pop that answers me jun 26 21:39:44 h01ger :) jun 26 21:39:45 sepski he also fixed the preseed + lvm issue that's coming in partman/13 now jun 26 21:39:56 sepski (in just 1 day) :)) jun 26 21:40:49 h01ger the mailinglist is also nice to have an overview, bugs and bugs-done are posted there as well :) jun 26 21:41:09 sepski autopart goes out of the agenda since white is afk. he wrote a email about it. jun 26 21:41:26 h01ger /topic "2. the status of the installer" is also done or is there something else? jun 26 21:41:33 sepski no jun 26 21:41:40 sepski i mean yes jun 26 21:41:42 sepski there are more jun 26 21:42:13 knuty sepski: ok jun 26 21:42:16 sepski i have only tried 1 compleate install lately, but that failed miserably. seams like atlest part of the cfengine run failed. jun 26 21:42:42 sepski squid is in a nonstartable fashion atlest there is no network config and no hostname. cousing most other services to fail as well jun 26 21:43:14 sepski i have not investigated it, but i had hoped other's had tested it more then i have. jun 26 21:44:03 sepski i do know that there was no ip on the interface when the installer was running. thay have a bad effect on the cfengine run atleast. jun 26 21:44:25 sepski have anyone else tried etch-test ? jun 26 21:45:43 sepski .oO(i had hoped it only was a local issue) jun 26 21:47:14 * h01ger thinks noone who is awake has tried it recently jun 26 21:47:27 sepski well they can read about it in the irc log then jun 26 21:47:35 * h01ger nods jun 26 21:47:50 sepski ill write a bug when i have time to test it again jun 26 21:48:02 knuty I think we should use 15 minutes on the rest of the issues jun 26 21:48:04 sepski i have nothing else on the installer jun 26 21:48:28 knuty The idea to fix the partitioning is that we can install the CD and fix the other bugs jun 26 21:49:23 h01ger this also can be done by doing sarge installs and upgrades :) jun 26 21:49:25 sepski well partitioning work now. with 1 questiong giving you a working non lvm'd system so its free to test for all jun 26 21:49:53 knuty sepski and the other developers: Well done! jun 26 21:49:55 sepski depending on the recipe you pick since not all are finished jun 26 21:50:09 knuty sepski: What about bug 311188 jun 26 21:50:10 sepski but main is okayish and ltsp is close jun 26 21:50:31 h01ger sepski, maybe write a mail for people wanting to test about how to workaround the problem jun 26 21:50:44 h01ger /topic 3. #311188 jun 26 21:50:49 sepski h01ger, ill write a call for testers email jun 26 21:51:01 h01ger sepski, great! :) jun 26 21:51:53 knuty Could we go to /topic 4 if /topic 3 was abou sepski sending e-mail to call for testes? jun 26 21:52:02 h01ger about #311188: no news afaik, but read the bugreport if you haven't done yet :-) my plan after finishing NM (which includes a tuxtype upload..) is to work on the bugs blocking #311188, and i would be happy about help :) jun 26 21:52:02 sepski i have not been much involved in bug 311188, i had hoped it would be as easy as each package renaming it's conffile from eg: squid.conf to squid.conf.orig and symlinking to squid.conf in postinst. then we coulr change that symlin to squid.debian-edu.conf and be policy compliant jun 26 21:52:29 sepski but i dont know if that would actualy make us policy compiant since IANAL jun 26 21:52:52 h01ger IANADD too :-D but i dont think that would work :) jun 26 21:53:48 sepski pity. it would have been very easy dor both us and the package devs jun 26 21:53:57 h01ger some maintainers have replied to the bugs and provided insightful answers, so my idea is to fix bug by bug (and adopt debian-edu-config also), until 311188 is fixed jun 26 21:54:25 h01ger it would also make upgrades a greater pain ;-) jun 26 21:54:25 sepski h01ger, good, ill help where i can. jun 26 21:54:35 h01ger great! jun 26 21:54:36 sepski h01ger, ah true. jun 26 21:54:46 h01ger so next point? jun 26 21:55:03 sepski 4.One Laptop per Child developer board jun 26 21:55:23 h01ger knuty, ? jun 26 21:55:39 knuty Ok. In short, it seems that we get Extremadura on board and ... jun 26 21:56:03 knuty and Christian Perrier. jun 26 21:56:31 knuty I did not see any rason to apply for a OLPC developer board if nobody want jun 26 21:56:32 knuty it jun 26 21:56:44 * h01ger is interested in OLPC but too busy atm jun 26 21:57:13 knuty So no people want to join that brance, and I can order boards, also to you h01ger :) jun 26 21:57:55 sepski sorry for beeing ignorant ??? this is to high level english for me... iis this board like a council ? company board ? jun 26 21:58:08 knuty So we will apply for enough board to people that does real work. I will also establish a Trolltech qt Community student project jun 26 21:58:10 h01ger no, a prototype board jun 26 21:58:13 sepski oohhh jun 26 21:58:16 h01ger not a laptop yet :) jun 26 21:58:20 h01ger without display jun 26 21:58:21 sepski <-- *smach* stupid me jun 26 21:58:29 knuty sepski: It's ok jun 26 21:58:50 sepski if it's about getting the debian-edu installer to work on it i probably find some time jun 26 21:59:48 knuty To have a joint development with Extremadura will really be a good thing. Getting student projects on this is also good, and I can continue with some Skolelinux work in Trolltech as a qt Community Manager jun 26 21:59:55 h01ger sepski, exactly thats the challange :) jun 26 22:00:16 xorAxAx knuty: you mean the OLPC would be the reason to join dev? jun 26 22:00:35 sepski if i can get one i can try sneaking it past the fiancee's no more computer junk curfeew jun 26 22:00:39 sepski :) jun 26 22:00:41 knuty xorAxAx: dev email list? jun 26 22:01:10 xorAxAx knuty: sorry, i mean to have " joint development" jun 26 22:01:38 knuty xorAxAx: Jepp. It's a way to make different people work togheter on a common goal to our common benefit jun 26 22:02:12 sepski we are over time we should speed up jun 26 22:02:18 xorAxAx thats right. i am not sure if there might be other goals first that make team work easier jun 26 22:03:03 knuty I'll change to /topic 5 if it's ok jun 26 22:03:04 * h01ger thinks OLPC has a political vision and so can get a different/another dynamic. jun 26 22:03:22 * h01ger also thinks "next point"? jun 26 22:03:46 sepski ack jun 26 22:03:58 knuty me /topic 5 applying for travel expenses for making the Minverva applications jun 26 22:04:25 * Werner == Morten Werner Olsen (tooooo late, sorry). jun 26 22:04:58 k4x for germans the paper is prepared, i need still more information fro, Thierry jun 26 22:05:23 knuty Oh you should call your national Minerva/Socrates office http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/DevCamp2006/ApplicationLetter jun 26 22:05:30 k4x at the moment i am not sure, how many germans will join the meeting, we are still collecting jun 26 22:05:49 xorAxAx k4x: its important to submit it on time - when is the exact deadline? jun 26 22:05:54 k4x knuty: yes, i know, the info is in the debian wiki jun 26 22:05:55 knuty k4x: thats ok, but you should send the letter this week jun 26 22:05:56 Werner it's "only" travel expences that the Minerva project covers, right? jun 26 22:06:21 xorAxAx Werner: no, but this is pre-minerva-application from what i gathered jun 26 22:06:31 k4x knuty: i will send it this week jun 26 22:06:39 knuty Werner: The Norwegian person at the Minerva Office told me that they chould cover expenses up to 1000 EURO for each person from our contry jun 26 22:07:20 Werner knuty: that will also cover lost work for people without vacation? :) jun 26 22:07:25 knuty Thats a big if, If we write a acceptable application for money, and taking into concideration that EU is changing the Minerva program jun 26 22:07:49 Werner ok jun 26 22:08:00 * Werner will have to look at the Norwegian application.. jun 26 22:08:35 knuty Werner: Difficult to say. I did not got ask about that. I'll read the application paper better tonight, and you should check too: jun 26 22:08:37 knuty http://siu.no/vev.nsf/O/SOKRATES-Minerva-Soknad+og+rapportering-Soknadsskjema jun 26 22:09:14 Werner thanks jun 26 22:09:49 xorAxAx note that these travel expenses are outside of the project which should be applied for at the minerva program, right? jun 26 22:10:47 knuty xorAxAx: Everybody that travels from somewhere other country than France should apply, and everybody are joning the application work in some way or another. jun 26 22:11:25 xorAxAx knuty: umm, i mean, this all is pre-minerva-program-application jun 26 22:11:33 xorAxAx i.e. skolelinux isnt yet in, is it? jun 26 22:11:43 knuty So put every german on the application, because we will need input from everyone. I know that we should do that. But dont expect us to get the money jun 26 22:11:50 * xorAxAx waits for kurt to answer those 4 questions above jun 26 22:12:25 xorAxAx knuty: what do you mean by that? esp. by "we will need input"? jun 26 22:12:49 xorAxAx every legal entity has to apply for travel funds, so this is about different "we"s :) jun 26 22:12:58 k4x xorAxAx: exact deadline i do not know, i will phone tomorow jun 26 22:13:01 knuty xorAxAx: It's not complicated. Applay for the workshop making a Minerva EU-founded pre-project, and focus on sharing knowledge, open content and cooperation between countries in education and getting people a new chance and so on. jun 26 22:13:04 * xorAxAx needs to know because of train tickets jun 26 22:13:22 knuty k4x: smart, call them tomorow. jun 26 22:13:41 * Werner sets mode -t #debian-edu jun 26 22:13:41 * ChanServ sets mode +t #debian-edu jun 26 22:13:41 xorAxAx knuty: yes, so funding will be different than in the future when skolelinux is assumed to be in the program jun 26 22:13:47 xorAxAx hehe jun 26 22:13:50 xorAxAx Werner: mode lock jun 26 22:14:43 sepski Werner, would it be bad to set chanmode -t ? are there much topic spamming in oftc ? sometimes it would be nice for us mere mortals to update the topic too :) jun 26 22:14:44 k4x this all is pre-minerva-program-application jun 26 22:15:05 * knuty /topic 5 : The germans and the norwegians will have sendt the applications this week? jun 26 22:15:18 knuty k4x: Yes? :) jun 26 22:15:22 k4x xorAxAx: skolelinux is starting to get financial support with the devcamp meeting jun 26 22:15:23 * Werner sets mode -t #debian-edu jun 26 22:15:23 * ChanServ sets mode +t #debian-edu jun 26 22:15:37 Wedge Werner jun 26 22:16:24 xorAxAx k4x: yeah, the upcoming question was if the in-program sponsoring is different than the one for dev camp jun 26 22:16:28 k4x knuty: yes, i will send it this week, every german who wants to join should put his name into the wiki page jun 26 22:16:44 * knuty /topic 5 closed jun 26 22:17:08 sepski topic 6 is SLX 2.0r1 jun 26 22:17:15 k4x xorAxAx: yes it is different afaik jun 26 22:17:24 * Werner sets mode -t #debian-edu jun 26 22:18:47 h01ger who works on SLX 2.0r1 ? jun 26 22:19:10 Werner white: ? jun 26 22:19:22 sepski RalfGesellensetter write that on the agenda, but he also stated he could not be here jun 26 22:19:48 h01ger because if its based on sarge_r3, then it also needs a new installer build (new kernel..) jun 26 22:19:50 Werner we did some preparations in Extremadura, but I guess white have the details.. jun 26 22:20:20 sepski i guess we drop this topic until white is online again ? jun 26 22:20:24 Werner yes jun 26 22:20:44 * h01ger nods jun 26 22:20:55 sepski i guess that concludes the meeting. jun 26 22:20:58 h01ger so the meeting is over :) jun 26 22:21:10 sepski 20 mins overtime. bah nothing compared to public sector :) jun 26 22:21:42 Werner :) jun 26 22:22:14 * k4x thanks to all, hope to meet you in France jun 26 22:22:23 knuty sepski: the meeting was not started before 19:12 UTC ;) jun 26 22:23:12 sepski knuty, true, hard to know who should start it. i assumed frode would since he had so nice an announcement email :) jun 26 22:23:36 h01ger sepski, so why dont we build d-i against sid (and make it _install_ etch by default)? jun 26 22:24:03 sepski h01ger, i asked white this a few weeks ago. he was reluctant to change the build system jun 26 22:24:25 Werner h01ger: but when etch is frozen, we should change back?? jun 26 22:24:27 h01ger ok, so lets discuss with him jun 26 22:24:31 sepski h01ger, then move back to the frozen installer when it freezes jun 26 22:24:42 sepski Werner, yes jun 26 22:25:24 Werner I guess it's better to help the installer-team to get things into etch, but then we'll lose some valuable test-time on the rest of our installation.. jun 26 22:25:33 h01ger d-i was branched (for etch) in the (last months of) preparation of sarge, so we would switch to that branch.. jun 26 22:26:18 h01ger Werner, but doesnt the installed system need more testing than the installation itself? jun 26 22:26:18 Werner h01ger: do you know how we can do this? jun 26 22:26:35 Werner h01ger: we need to do a lot of testing, yes.. jun 26 22:26:48 h01ger Werner, partly. but i can get a clue on the parts i dont know :) jun 26 22:27:27 sepski h01ger, part of the problem is debian-cd, we use a old svn version that we patch with our own patch that we dont dare update in case it breaks, and only those with accounts on administrator can do this work. they are also the most busy people :) jun 26 22:28:27 Werner didn't white start with a new version of debian-cd?? jun 26 22:29:03 sepski Werner, yes. but that's a while ago and it's under constant change. jun 26 22:29:19 h01ger maybe we need the old version for sarge builds and the new one for etch builds :) jun 26 22:29:20 Werner right.. and white doesn't want to update it? :) jun 26 22:29:33 sepski Werner, dont think he have had the time to try to jun 26 22:29:51 Werner right. jun 26 22:30:05 Werner sepski: and you know the setup a bit ?? jun 26 22:30:37 sepski Werner, just some. jun 26 22:31:10 sepski Werner, i was trying to help white but i just confused him, since i was working of a different svn version of debian-cd then he did... it got confusing fast :) jun 26 22:31:44 Werner right .. but if you want to look more at it, I guess white would welcome some help :) jun 26 22:31:54 sepski o got a tarball of his version, but then he already had it working so i didnt look at it any more. jun 26 22:32:07 Werner ok jun 26 22:32:36 sepski ill ask him if i can get a hold of him in his nondefault TZ down under jun 26 22:33:58 * h01ger has changed the topic to: Debian-Edu/Skolelinux 3.0 codename "terra" under development || check services in etch report to http://bugs.skolelinux.no/1095 || next meeting at 2006-07-xx || stable version is 2.0
