Differences between revisions 2 and 3
Revision 2 as of 2008-02-12 22:05:21
Size: 19860
Comment: CipUX is generic, not something specific to DebianEdu
Revision 3 as of 2009-03-16 03:29:55
Size: 19860
Editor: anonymous
Comment: converted to 1.6 markup
No differences found!
   1 18:08 <@C14r> Well I thought the meeting was on Monday 2000UTC but I might be wrong. So I guess it was 2000CET, I will come back in 2h
   2 18:23 <@[-oskar-]> yes
   3 18:23 <@[-oskar-]> I think so
   4 19:38 " * k4x i am here now
   5 19:38 < k4x> C14r: ping
   6 20:02 <@SammyWG> 'd evening
   7 20:03 <@SammyWG> [-oskar-]: did you receive any feedback from jean-charles? my inbox doesnt content any mail by him :(
   8 20:04 <@[-oskar-]> SammyWG: He says me that he will continue the work with Olivier
   9 20:04 <@SammyWG> hmmm ... k. so he dont need any more feedback of me?
  10 20:05 <@[-oskar-]> He will send you a mail if he need more details
  11 20:06 <@SammyWG> k.
  12 20:07 "-!- JeanCharles [~chatzilla@abo-254-59-68.mts.modulonet.fr] has joined #CipUX
  13 20:08 < JeanCharles> hi
  14 20:08 <@SammyWG> hi JeanCharles :)
  15 20:09 < JeanCharles> does the meeting start yet ?
  16 20:09 <@SammyWG> not really
  17 20:10 < JeanCharles> who's missing
  18 20:10 < JeanCharles> ??
  19 20:10 <@SammyWG> C14r is still offline, i think
  20 20:10 "-!- Irssi: #cipux: Total of 5 nicks [3 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 2 normal]
  21 20:11 < JeanCharles> ok
  22 20:17 <@SammyWG> on the other hand, probably there are questions we dont need C14r for answering?
  23 20:18 < JeanCharles> ok
  24 20:19 <@SammyWG> [-oskar-]: is it okay for you to start?
  25 20:20 <@[-oskar-]> yep
  26 20:21 <@[-oskar-]> but firstly I want to know if C14r solved the problem with cipux-coommon
  27 20:22 < k4x> i have asked Andreas from moodle to join this meeting today
  28 20:22 < JeanCharles> it's good for me to
  29 20:23 < k4x> it seems he is not here
  30 20:24 < k4x> so lets start, if you like i will write the log file into the debian wiki
  31 20:27 < JeanCharles> it's good for me
  32 20:28 < JeanCharles> :^)
  33 20:30 <@SammyWG> JeanCharles: short question about the coding style - you know you ran into problems if using <? instead of <?php ? a well configured php should have disabled short tags ...
  34 20:30 " * SammyWG is quickreading the svn tree of the php stuff
  35 20:31 < JeanCharles> i didn't know it
  36 20:32 <@SammyWG> and header('Location:URL'); _must_ be an absolute path not a relative one.
  37 20:33 <@SammyWG> :)
  38 20:34 <@SammyWG> its easy to let the script build the path itself, including http/https change and port numbers etc
  39 20:35 < JeanCharles> you mean i have to write header('Location: /usr/share/moodle/cipuxPHP/mypage.php'); ??
  40 20:35 < JeanCharles> for example
  41 20:35 <@SammyWG> no, thats a system path, not a URI
  42 20:36 < JeanCharles> so only header('Location: mypage.php');
  43 20:36 < JeanCharles> ??
  44 20:36 <@SammyWG> header('Location: http://www.mydomain.tld:port/path/to/script'); exit();
  45 20:36 < JeanCharles> okay
  46 20:36 <@SammyWG> take a look at http://php.net/header  i think the french translation is up to date, its one of the best documentation teams we have :)
  47 20:37 <@SammyWG> and keep in mind http could also be https if anyone prefers a secure connections
  48 20:37 <@SammyWG> -s
  49 20:38 "-!- JeanCharles_ [~chatzilla@abo-254-59-68.mts.modulonet.fr] has joined #CipUX
  50 20:39 < JeanCharles_> SammyWG: okay , i'm reading it,
  51 20:42 < JeanCharles_> SammyWG: i'm a novice, i don't know all the subtlety of PHP
  52 20:42 <@SammyWG> np, thats why im here :)
  53 20:42 < JeanCharles_> hehe :p
  54 20:44 "-!- JeanCharles [~chatzilla@abo-254-59-68.mts.modulonet.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
  55 20:44 "-!- JeanCharles_ is now known as JeanCharles
  56 20:45 <@SammyWG> hmmm ... what i dont understand is the mix of html and php itself because of it results in problems even if you wanna change the layout. you could use a simple "template engine" (20 lines or so) to split off the php from the template section, so you get clean code and clean html templates
  57 20:45 <@SammyWG> i know beginners like to mix it, but my knowledge says "no"
  58 20:47 < JeanCharles> it's not that beginner like that, it's because they don't know and they don't understand why thay have to do template ,
  59 20:47 < JeanCharles> thay => they
  60 20:48 <@SammyWG> its a good question, if i may answer?
  61 20:49 <@SammyWG> of course php supports the mix of html and php itself. and if you only want to print out the current time or anything like that you can mix it.
  62 20:49 < JeanCharles> okay
  63 20:50 <@SammyWG> all bigger scripts should split code and layout because of maintainability - the program part should be changable, but the layout part too. without
  64 changes on the other side
  65 20:50 <@SammyWG> why?
  66 20:50 < JeanCharles> so, how can i do this ?
  67 20:50 < JeanCharles> make some include of sript ?? or do echo '....';
  68 20:51 < JeanCharles> ?
  69 20:51 <@SammyWG> if you write code and, lets say [-oskar-] wanna change the layout, you dont like to change the code because of layout reasons - and [-oskar-] would
  70 dont like to change the layout because of coding reasons :)
  71 20:52 <@[-oskar-]> :)
  72 20:52 <@SammyWG> okay, how to do? i could spend you a short template function (the 20 lines i told above) as i use it in trainings.
  73 20:52 <@C14r> soorry
  74 20:52 <@SammyWG> its fast and handy :)
  75 20:52 < JeanCharles> ok
  76 20:54 < JeanCharles> SammyWG: can you show an example
  77 20:54 < JeanCharles> ?
  78 20:54 <@C14r> C14r = Christian Kuelker
  79 20:54 <@SammyWG> yes, one moment :)
  80 20:55 "-!- C14r changed the topic of #CipUX to: Metting Monday 2006-10-09 20:25 CET
  81 20:56 "-!- C14r changed the topic of #CipUX to: Meeting Monday 2006-10-09 20:25 CET
  82 20:57 <@SammyWG> <?php $aReplace = array('{name}'=>'SammyWG'); $output = str_replace(array_keys($aReplace), array_values($aReplace), file_get_contents('my_template.tpl')); print $output; exit();?> and the template includes <html><head><title>myfile's title</title></head><body><h1>Hi {name}!</h1></body></html>
  83 20:57 <@SammyWG> thats a very very short example of how templating could work
  84 20:58 < JeanCharles> okay, i better understand
  85 20:59 <@SammyWG> see, the html snippet includes a boilerplate called {name}, which will be replaced by script with the content
  86 20:59 <@SammyWG> so the layout can handled completely separate :)
  87 21:00 < JeanCharles> ok
  88 21:00 <@SammyWG> the only thing the programmer and the designer must talk about is the name of the boilerplate itself.
  89 21:01 < JeanCharles> i dislike doing design
  90 21:01 <@SammyWG> but where it is placed into the template the programmer dont know - and the designer dont know where the content of the boilerplate comes from :)
  91 21:01 <@SammyWG> so templating is a very good choice for you :)
  92 21:01 < JeanCharles> for this project i have do the design end the programm :s
  93 21:02 <@SammyWG> probably you find somebody to do the design for giving you the chance to improve your programming skills?
  94 21:03 <@SammyWG> anybody in here knows a guy with good html and css knowledge?
  95 21:04 <@C14r> JeanCharles: When you use templates, there is a choice to separate the task.
  96 21:04 <@C14r> SammyWG: no sorry. But may bur k4x do ...
  97 21:04 < JeanCharles> know, only programmer in my friends
  98 21:04 <@C14r> If this is working, I am sure we wil made a design contest ...
  99 21:04 <@SammyWG> k4x has xhtml/css2 knowlegde?
 100 21:05 <@SammyWG> JeanCharles: finding a designer is mostly much easier than finding a good programmer
 101 21:05 <@C14r> SammyWG: no, not that i know. but he knows maynbe some people who  are able to do that.
 102 21:06 <@C14r> May be David Weicher can do that, if he has time
 103 21:06 <@SammyWG> yeah, david could be a good choice.
 104 21:06 <@C14r> Sorry Weicher=Weichert
 105 21:07 < k4x> SammyWG: not really
 106 21:07 < JeanCharles> SammyWG: in you mail you say that making include($page); is dangerous but i don't see how giving a value in $page because i give all the possibilities in a menu
 107 21:07 <@SammyWG> JeanCharles: yes, but bad guys as me can change the url so we get all we wanna see :)
 108 21:08 <@SammyWG> JeanCharles: keep in mind: all users input is bad. always
 109 21:08 < JeanCharles> you can become a good guy
 110 21:08 <@SammyWG> yes, and a lot of ppl out there too
 111 21:08 < JeanCharles> ok bar users input
 112 21:08 <@C14r> It should not be so difficult to send everything as you like to a web server.
 113 21:10 <@SammyWG> JeanCharles: if you wanna know more about web application security please read sverre huseby, a guy from oslo writing a good (not language dependent) book about security problems and how to find out if an application is vulnerable and how to solve these problems
 114 21:10 <@C14r> JeanCharles: just a question, do you know how to avoit "include($page)" ?
 115 21:10 <@SammyWG> JeanCharles: its easy to read, 2 evenings only, its a good written crime book :)
 116 21:11 < JeanCharles> SammyWG: LOL
 117 21:11 <@C14r> SammyWG: do you have URL or ISBN?
 118 21:11 "-!- thierry_ [~thierry@lns-bzn-35-82-250-196-131.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #CipUX
 119 21:11 < thierry_> Hello
 120 21:11 <@SammyWG> C14r: isbn, yes, one moment
 121 21:11 < JeanCharles> C14r: i don't know at this this time
 122 21:12 <@C14r> JeanCharles: ok, then we may ask SammyWG ?
 123 21:12 <@C14r> (I dont know to)
 124 21:12 <@SammyWG> http://www.amazon.fr/Innocent-Code-Security-Wake-Up-Programmers/dp/0470857447/sr=1-5/qid=1160421140/ref=sr_1_5/403-4132775-0401230?ie=UTF8&s=english-books
 125 21:13 <@SammyWG> im afraid it isnt translated, but if you understand german well, you can also read http://www.amazon.fr/PHP-Sicherheit-Christopher-Kunz/dp/3898643697/sr=8-2/qid=1160421208/ref=sr_1_2/403-4132775-0401230?ie=UTF8&s=books
 126 21:14 < JeanCharles> SammyWG: only written in english or german ??
 127 21:14 < JeanCharles> my german is very bad and my english is not at the top
 128 21:14 <@SammyWG> JeanCharles: sorry, i dont know about the french books because of my french isnt really good
 129 21:15 <@SammyWG> :(
 130 21:15 < JeanCharles> SammyWG: you're really a bad guy :)
 131 21:15 <@SammyWG> yeah i know :) was speaker at the ajax in action two weeks ago ;)
 132 21:18 <@C14r> SammyWG: Thank you for the tip.
 133 21:18 <@SammyWG> (and reviewed a part of the php-sicherheit-book by chris kunz ...)
 134 21:19 <@C14r> JeanCharles: can I ask something?
 135 21:19 < JeanCharles> C14r: of course
 136 21:19 < JeanCharles> thierry_: do you sleep ?
 137 21:19 < thierry_> JeanCharles, No I don't
 138 21:20 < thierry_> but i'm listening
 139 21:20 <@C14r> JeanCharles: there is now Installation guide for cipuxPHP in wiki.debian.edu right now, can you provide one?
 140 21:20 < JeanCharles> better reading
 141 21:20 <@C14r> worry wiki,debian.org
 142 21:21 <@C14r> JeanCharles: The german community might want to install it separtly. Is there a install manual in wiki.skolelinux.fr?
 143 21:21 <@SammyWG> JeanCharles: so if you have questions about php and application design and security and all these things, ask :)
 144 21:22 <@C14r> SammyWG: thank you for you offer!
 145 21:22 <@C14r> SammyWG: I was late, was there a respose from the Frensh team about you mail?
 146 21:23 <@SammyWG> C14r: no, but [-oskar-] told me i will get mail if JeanCharles' team have questions ... and i hope there will be a lot of mails :) (or i have to send tons bug reports ;)
 147 21:24 < JeanCharles> SammyWG: thank you for your offer
 148 21:24 <@C14r> SammyWG: yes I hope this will be deald soon. Can I have a CC?
 149 21:24 <@C14r> JeanCharles: (I wait for an answer ...) :)
 150 21:25 < JeanCharles> C14r: you need a installation guide for cipuxPHP in english right ??
 151 21:26 <@SammyWG> JeanCharles: as i offered, i can help you to redesign the application and fixing the security bugs aso. but we have to discuss a lot of things for,
 152 i think
 153 21:26 <@C14r> JeanCharles: yes, if there is one in Frensh, we can translate that.
 154 21:27 <@C14r> SammyWG: Should we do that on a list?
 155 21:27 < JeanCharles> C14r: there is no guide of cipuxPHP install but maybe see with [-oskar-]
 156 21:27 <@SammyWG> C14r: we can, but dont set me hard deadlines. there is a lot of work to do
 157 21:28 <@C14r> JeanCharles: then one should be written or is it so easy to install?
 158 21:28 <@C14r> SammyWG: No I won't. I just think a bout the right form to do it.
 159 21:29 < JeanCharles> SammyWG: thank you for your help, but it will take some time because i'm a student and i have to focus on my courses
 160 21:30 <@C14r> SammyWG: what roadmap (no dates) would you suggest?
 161 21:30 <@SammyWG> JeanCharles: np - im working hard every day too, so i know what you talk about :)
 162 21:30 < JeanCharles> C14r: i think it's easy to install, you can copy cipuxPHP from the SVN and paste the code in the good directory
 163 21:31 <@C14r> [-oskar-]: can you make the package cipux-cat-moodle from that?
 164 21:31 <@SammyWG> JeanCharles: are you familiar with object oriented programming or are you more familiar with procedural one?
 165 21:32 < JeanCharles> the both
 166 21:32 < JeanCharles> SammyWG: the both
 167 21:33 < JeanCharles> but i worked mostly with oriented object programming last year
 168 21:34 <@SammyWG> JeanCharles: k. what do you think about we mail details of php stuff development tomorrow? so im afraid not all of the guys in here are permantely fascinated by details of it? :)
 169 21:35 < JeanCharles> what is the e-mail ?
 170 21:35 <@SammyWG> sammywg@gmx.de or sammywg@php.net
 171 21:36 <@SammyWG> (but the first one is mostly faster)
 172 21:36 <@[-oskar-]> C14r: ?
 173 21:36 <@C14r> JeanCharles: if the installation is so easy then it could be added to http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/CipUX/Installation/3.2.12 as point 5.5
 174 21:36 <@C14r> [-oskar-]: is there packet for cipuxPHP?
 175 21:36 <@[-oskar-]> C14r: yes
 176 21:36 < JeanCharles> C14r: yes
 177 21:37 < JeanCharles> SammyWG: i don't understand  the stuff developpement tomorrow
 178 21:37 <@C14r> The it is apget able, so we do not need the CVS version for installation guied, right?
 179 21:37 <@[-oskar-]> only in svn
 180 21:37 <@SammyWG> JeanCharles: okay ... lets say we could start the discussion about. what do you think?
 181 21:37 <@[-oskar-]> but I can make a new one this night
 182 21:37 <@C14r> [-oskar-]: ok, sorry SVN
 183 21:38 <@C14r> [-oskar-]: only if it is nessessary
 184 21:38 <@[-oskar-]> ok, then I build a new one and send the url here
 185 21:38 <@[-oskar-]> If some one need one, just ping me
 186 21:38 <@C14r> [-oskar-]: yes or can you write this to:  http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/CipUX/Installation/3.2.12
 187 21:38 <@[-oskar-]> C14r: yes !
 188 21:39 <@C14r> [-oskar-]: as point 5.5
 189 21:39 <@[-oskar-]> ok
 190 21:39 <@C14r> [-oskar-]: Thank you
 191 21:39 < JeanCharles> SammyWG: i think i don't have all the night , i start at 8:00 am tomorrow
 192 21:39 < JeanCharles> SammyWG: but we can start
 193 21:39 <@C14r> JeanCharles: I think SammyWG would like to write you about the security and coding style issues in more detail with email
 194 21:40 < JeanCharles> and continu by mail
 195 21:40 <@C14r> JeanCharles: yes thats probably what he ment.
 196 21:41 <@C14r> JeanCharles: For my experience it might also a good Idea to make an appointment to make this faster. If there is too much times between mails on tends
 197 to forget the details when the next mail arrive.
 198 21:42 <@C14r> JeanCharles: how a about a telephone call?
 199 21:43 <@C14r> (with SammyWG)
 200 21:43 < JeanCharles> traditionnal telephone call or with skype ??
 201 21:43 <@SammyWG> C14r: im not good in french, and JeanCharles isnt good in german - and both we are not english native speakers ... so telephone call is not the best choice, i think
 202 21:43 <@C14r> and English?
 203 21:43 < JeanCharles> the problem is that i don't have internet all the time,
 204 21:44 <@C14r> well for me it was nice to talk to JeanCharles when I was in France! :)
 205 21:44 <@SammyWG> think mail is a better choice. so we both can re-read the details and have more complexitivity in discussion
 206 21:44 <@C14r> (But I was just thinking about the an other way of doing things)
 207 21:45 <@C14r> SammyWG: ok, you are right.
 208 21:45 < JeanCharles> and at this time i'm on a friend internet connection so i can't live with my friend because he has a girl friend so it is a real problem for me
 209 21:45 < JeanCharles> C14r: it was nice for me too, and don't forget the meeting in spain :)
 210 21:46 <@C14r> :) No this was great!
 211 21:46 <@SammyWG> JeanCharles: dont panic, mail is delayed discussion, so we can answer another if we have enough time (and net connect) for
 212 21:47 <@C14r> ok, wonderful!
 213 21:48 < JeanCharles> SammyWG: i never panic
 214 21:49 <@SammyWG> *eg* "trust me you would if you know me better" as a friend of mine says :)
 215 21:50 <@C14r> Is somewone doing the moderation?
 216 21:50 <@SammyWG> no, just k4x wanna write down the log
 217 21:51 <@C14r> ok, then let me say somthing to the state of the new version, ok?
 218 21:51 <@SammyWG> :)
 219 21:52 < JeanCharles> :)
 220 21:53 <@C14r> I worked in the new version on saturday but due to a bug, which i created very creative in the Makefile of cipux-common the hole package didn't build.
 221 21:54 <@C14r> This thing is fixed, so that cipux build again. But there was no time for checking. I will do it now. So i think tomorrow or the day after it should be tested others too.
 222 21:55 <@C14r> Are there any plans for testing? Shedules?
 223 21:56 <@[-oskar-]> I will test it too
 224 21:56 <@C14r> The new version can be retrieved as cipux-3.2.11 from debiantest.cipworx.org. It will become 3.2.12 when it is stable. So use http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/CipUX/Installation/3.2.12 to install it. Please correct the guide if it s wrong.
 225 21:56 <@C14r> [-oskar-]: thank you.
 226 21:57 <@C14r> so I write you a mail, when it makes sense, ok?
 227 21:57 < JeanCharles> i have to leave this meetiing, my friend is tired and i can't sleep here, so good night everybody,
 228 21:57 < k4x> the buildserver in our testcenter is broken yesterday, so there is no new SkoleLiveCd :\
 229 21:57 <@C14r> JeanCharles: good night!
 230 21:57 <@[-oskar-]> C14r: ok
 231 21:57 < k4x> JeanCharles: bonne nuit
 232 21:57 <@SammyWG> good night JeanCharles .) read you tomorrow :)
 233 21:57 <@[-oskar-]> C14r: i will build a new addon cd with this version and try it
 234 21:57 <@C14r> k4x: Realmarkt 199 EUR new pc
 235 21:57 < JeanCharles> SammyWG: we continue to talk about php developping by mail ??
 236 21:58 <@SammyWG> JeanCharles: yes
 237 21:59 < JeanCharles> SammyWG: i have to mail adress jeancharles.siegel@gmail.com and jeancharles.siegel@umail.univ-metz.fr
 238 21:59 <@SammyWG> youre to far away from me to invite you for dinner to talk :)
 239 21:59 < JeanCharles> SammyWG: yes i think so
 240 21:59 <@SammyWG> k, read you tomorrow :)
 241 21:59 < JeanCharles> ok
 242 21:59 < JeanCharles> bye bye
 243 21:59 "-!- JeanCharles [~chatzilla@abo-254-59-68.mts.modulonet.fr] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.5/2006071912]]
 244 22:01 <@C14r> [-oskar-]: do you have time next monday?
 245 22:05 <@SammyWG> hmm ... what about next meeting on next monday? 2000 CET?
 246 22:06 <@SammyWG> C14r, [-oskar-]?
 247 22:06 "-!- Irssi: #cipux: Total of 5 nicks [3 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 2 normal]
 248 22:06 <@SammyWG> thierry_?
 249 22:06 <@C14r> I would suggest 20:30h
 250 22:09 < thierry_> I will try to be at time next monday :)
 251 22:09 <@SammyWG> hmmm ... could be very late because of we started delayed the last two times, so im afraid real start time would be 2100 cet, C14r
 252 22:09 <@C14r> ok, the we do 20:00h :)
 253 22:10 <@C14r> thierry_: ok?
 254 22:10 <@C14r> k4x: ok?
 255 22:10 <@C14r> [-oskar-]: ok?
 256 22:10 < k4x> ok
 257 22:10 < thierry_> 2100 is better for me
 258 22:11 <@C14r> thierry_: (as SammyWG stated, we will not start very early ...)
 259 22:12 "-!- SammyWG changed the topic of #CipUX to: Next meeting on monday 2006-10-16 2000 CET/1800 UTC
 260 22:13 <@C14r> thierry_: we will discuss important things after 21h
 261 22:14 <@C14r> thierry_: can you make a list and collect topics? in: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/CipUX/Meeting/20061016 (put the important things after21h!)
 262 22:16 < thierry_> C14r, ok
 263 22:17 <@C14r> thierry_: thank you! :)
 264 22:38 "-!- thierry_ [~thierry@lns-bzn-35-82-250-196-131.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
 265 23:34 <@[-oskar-]> C14r: ok for me too
 266 "--- Day changed Tue Oct 10 2006"
 267 00:17 <@C14r> [-oskar-]: then we doo it :)
 268 00:29 <@C14r> 2~G2~[2~[2~[2~
 269 00:30 <@C14r> [-oskar-]: i upload a version wich installs somewat, but it will takes some hours till finish.
 270 00:30 <@C14r> [-oskar-]: But not today, so good knight!